Is the 2009 movie a nostalgia film?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Danlav05, Dec 8, 2017.

  1. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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    Three or four minutes, if that?

    Far shorter than the amount of play Bry has managed to get this time out of the same old inaccurate complaint he's been repeating periodically ever since May of 2013.
     
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  2. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    And, every time Star Trek uses Shakespeare, it is a rip off of that? Or, perhaps First Contact is a rip off of Moby Dick?
     
  3. velour

    velour Commander Red Shirt

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    Yes, those were blatant rip offs of TWOK.

    What I didn't understand was why JJ Abrams chose to do another movie that featured the Khan character and that was based on TOS's "Space Seed". I take it that STID was, more or less, JJ's sequel to "Space Seed". But why do another one? There is already a sequel to "Space Seed". It is TWOK, which btw is an exellent movie and very good sequel as well.

    Compared to TWOK, JJ's version of a sequel to "Space Seed" sucked. In any case, STID was mediocre even without the comparison.

    If JJ wanted to evoke nostalgia, why didn't he choose to base his 2nd Trek movie on a different TOS episode. There were over 70 other TOS episodes that he could have chosen from.
     
  4. ISS Enterprise

    ISS Enterprise Commander Red Shirt

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    Agree - my issue with ST09 sequel was reading on line that JJ was leaning towards Khan as the villian.

    ST09 went out of it's way to show this was a new setting, anything could happen, setting up unlimited potential then he pegs an old character w a new twist etc., but seemed like moving backwards vs forwards

    Now I enjoyed the movie own it on dvd n digital watched many times as I lean TOS but a fresh story would've been preferred, possibly setting up a trilogy, esp with 4 years to produce after ST09
     
  5. Hey Missy

    Hey Missy Commander Red Shirt

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    What a previous poster said, the JJ movies aren't so much a nostalgia trip as simply "take whatever pop culture things about Trek that most people are familiar with and just throw it all in and hope it works".
     
  6. Serveaux

    Serveaux The Wind Premium Member

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    The Trek movies featuring Shatner, Nimoy et al were themselves intrinsically nostalgia films - they relied for much of their appeal and emotional impact on the fondness of an audience for something they had loved for years and the producers and writers were completely conscious of that - they played every emotional string as manipulatively as they could.

    Come on, look at this clip with particular attention to the score. What the hell are they doing here other than wallowing in familiar sentimentality?

     
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  7. Hey Missy

    Hey Missy Commander Red Shirt

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    The only reason they even used Khan in the first place was to cash off nostalgia and casual audience familiarity for both "Space Seed" and TWOK at the same time.
    But then they marketed him as "John Harrison" :shrug:
     
  8. GNDN18

    GNDN18 Computer Center. Premium Member

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    It worked in 1984—
    And it worked again just now.

    Thanks, Dennis. I actually needed the wallow.
     
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  9. Serveaux

    Serveaux The Wind Premium Member

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    They used Khan in STID because someone had the notion that as a villain he was equivalent to using The Joker in the second Bat-Nolan movie.
     
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  10. PureCrimson

    PureCrimson Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I think 'fanservice' is the best way to describe these medicore films, to be honest.

    I know some people like them, but they were nothing but nostalgia-heavy cash grabs for me. The second one ESPECIALLY.
     
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  11. Hey Missy

    Hey Missy Commander Red Shirt

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    People certainly have this idea that Khan is the "biggest" villain (biggest pecs, maybe), comparable to the Joker or General Zod or Thanos just because he was in the most memorable of the original movies.
    But... no form of Trek media had ever brought Khan back to life or used him again after 1982 until 2013 (except the Cox novels, of course).
    Imagine if Khan kept turning up once in a while like the Borg.
     
  12. Serveaux

    Serveaux The Wind Premium Member

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    Again, see Star Trek II - VI.
     
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  13. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That somehow non fans enjoyed.
    Since many Trek films attempt to emulate TWOK in some fashion, I say that he kind of does.
     
  14. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    TPTB said in interviews that their AU setting meant they could tell all-new stories or lean on existing lore as they wished. And it's exactly what they did - ID used loads of existing Trek lore (albeit in a new way - I don't recall evil admirals manipulating events in WoK, or a Genesis device in ID) and Beyond was an all-new adventure.
     
  15. ISS Enterprise

    ISS Enterprise Commander Red Shirt

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    IMO they forced Khan into movie, but that's my feeling. They took 4, FOUR, years to write produce ID. I was looking for fresh direction, again that's my desire

    Beyond had only 6 months to write a script from scratch after Paramount chit canned RO n his script. Finishing up n rewritting portions as filming started . Not same circumstances as ID

    Beyond has many issues that needed a few more tweaks or rewrites, but at least it was taking AU crew into a new adventure with new characters IMO

    I enjoy both, again I'm a TOS guy
     
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  16. pst

    pst Captain Captain

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    they actually took longer -- the first film was produced way back in 2007 and then pushed off its xmas 2008 release date to summer 2009.

    however, in the commentary track for the 09 film, abrams and the writers say that they nearly put a shot of the botany bay at the end of the end credits sequence as a tease for the sequel. seems less like they forced khan into the movie and more like they built it around him, for better or for worse.
     
  17. PureCrimson

    PureCrimson Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I couldn't disagree more. Those are my three favorite Trek films. They're beyond just being good Star Trek films and just being good films for me.
     
  18. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    IIRC, Bob Orci initially disagreed about using Khan in Into Darkness, but Damon Lindelof was dead-set on Khan. A compromise was made--Orci wrote an early treatment completely without Khan and then added him in later.
     
  19. Serveaux

    Serveaux The Wind Premium Member

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    Pointing out that they're nostalgia-based has nothing to do with liking or disliking them. I'm pretty fond of most of them as well, but they just drip with nostalgic manipulation.

    Out of those five films, three are actually pretty good movies for their era.
     
  20. PureCrimson

    PureCrimson Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I don't even really see the same level of nostalgia you're referring. Even as you mention them now, with the dozens of times I've seen each, if there was nostalgia catering, I have never once noticed.

    So, I suppose that deserves applaud itself; if it had it, it was subtle enough to not be distracting. I wish I could say the same thing for the JJ films.