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Spoilers Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Grading & Discussion

Grade the movie.

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    290
Kirk the Jerk said:
Well, I’ve come out the cinema feeling a bit empty, it certainly was a good movie however there are too many things I didnt like or didn’t sit well with me...

Pros

Yoda ghost (best part of the movie for me)
The character development was strong, Rey, Po, Finn and BB-8 are all very likeable characters I’m sure will continue the saga for years to come.
We got to see more of C-3PO than in TFA
Chewie is still fantastic in every way

Cons

Flying Leia (what the f**k was that)
R2D2 screen time as in TFA was very limited despite being an extremely useful and quirky character, he now just sits there n bleeps.
Luke’s ‘death’ (worst possible way to kill off the ultimate SW character IMO)
Phasma (there’s just no need)
Snoke’s death
The inclusion of Maz felt forced, she should’ve died in TFA or not have existed at all IMO
Certain scenes felt rushed, one minute we’re with Luke, then we’re with the rebel’s then it switches to the millennium falcon then back to Luke.

I just don’t like the way they’ve dealt with the ‘old’ Characters, I understand the need for a new set of heroes but the way they’ve gone about it feels like they’ve completely disregarded them and they Luke especially deserved a better send off.

I will watch episode 9 but I’m not excited for it after watching this, I thought I’d be the complete opposite.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Yoda ghost was a good part! :techman:
I´m with you about the cons.
Put in the list: the camera closes in Ren feet when duelling with Luke and the Matrix movements. There´s a lot of delay in the scene too, and cuts with wrong timing. Surelly not the best Jedi duel to date.

About how they deal with the characters and even with the whole universe of Star Wars, is explicit in the words that Kylo says to Rey, "...forget the Jedis and the Siths, forgot all that happened before..." etc.

I think that Rogue One was a much better movie at all. Very well done!
 
Saw the midnight screening last night. I liked it okay upon leaving the theater but after sleeping on it I'm lukewarm. I didn't hate it though, which is something. Congratulations Rian Johnson for clearing the astonishingly low bar set by TFA.

I liked the production design a lot, the characters were fun and relatable, and I actually enjoyed the humor this time which was a major sticking point with TFA. And the weird shit people are unhappy with, like Superman Leia and Luke milking the....whatever that thing is...I loved. Weird is good. Bring me more. There are great moments throughout and Johnson is clearly one hell of a talented filmmaker but for me the story never really escaped the weight of how unconvinced I am by this whole First Order/Republic/Resistance/recreate the OT...thing. If you went into these movies cold, you could be forgiven for having no idea that the Rebellion won in an earlier movie. And unfortunately TLJ does nothing to make the TFA reset more plausible.

It retroactively makes the situation more unbelievable, now that I think about it. It seems Starkiller Base was so effective that it wiped out the Republic in its entirety in one shot. Which makes me wonder why was the First Order charging up for a second shot at all? Why the frantic effort to blow it up? Going by this movie, there was nothing left to destroy. They got it all except for a handful of bombers, some fighters, and one capital ship! The First Order conquered the galaxy in a weekend. I can't even get my apartment cleaned in that amount of time.

I liked Luke and Rey's story but I wanted more of it. We spent so much time with the Resistance and all that crap I don't care about that it shortchanged them. If the movie had taken place entirely on Ach-To, I'd have been perfectly fine with that.

B-
 
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B+

As far as what I liked... Mark Hamill was excellent. Carrie was great too and it was really depressing knowing this is the least we'll see of her. I'm happy she had a scene with Luke and I was about ready to start balling during it. Good humor. The second half of the movie was very good. At the end of VII, Kylo was irredeemable and I'm glad they not trying to redeem him. Yoda!

As far as negatives... The first half seemed to drag a bit. The Snoke ending was dumb. I don't know how he didn't see that coming.

I think it was better overall than VII. I'll see it again.
 
Other things bother me as well, no mention of Lando, they could’ve dedicated one line in either TFA or TLJ to say he’d either died or is on s planet somewhere but the guy who blew up the Death Star gets no mention whatsoever.

The Knights of Ren? Where are they? Or were they Snokes guards? They seemed like standard Emporer’s guards to me, gifted in the force but not to the extent of a Jedi or Sith. Are we just supposed to forget these characters have been introduced?
 
But what about Leia ?
As they were boarding The Falcon Leia hung back - at that point I expected her to turn back and confront Kylo, effectively ending her story.

With Carrie gone and Leia still alive with the remaining rebels, they've painted themselves into a corner. They've said they won't use CGI or a double, so they'll kill her off screen ?
 
This movie seems to be getting more than its fair share of user-level vitriol on IMDB and RottenTomatoes. For once, I'm leaning more toward the professional critics' consensus rather than the opinions of the masses.

Edit: Also, just in case we were starting to think that the new tie-in materials were "cannnon," Poe and Rey meet in this movie for the first time... again, even though they already did in the TFA novelization.

Kor
 
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Relayer1 said:
But what about Leia ?
As they were boarding The Falcon Leia hung back - at that point I expected her to turn back and confront Kylo, effectively ending her story.

With Carrie gone and Leia still alive with the remaining rebels, they've painted themselves into a corner. They've said they won't use CGI or a double, so they'll kill her off screen ?
Click to expand...

Its possible that Ep9 will take place several years down the line allowing room to take care of that particular issue.
 
Luke's return and sacrifice and the legend that will begin to emerge around Rey due to her power will no doubt inspire that spark of Rebellion across the Galaxy. The First Order much like the Empire is a house of cards built on sand...

Remove Kylo and a few people like Hux and it will collapse under it's own weight & corruption.
 
Tosk said:
Is the Leia thing actually stupid though, or we being too strict about what Force sensitives can do? When did Star Wars ever say you couldn't survive space for a little while? ;)
Click to expand...
Everyone can survive in space for a short while. It's hardly pushing it to consider a Jedi slowing their heartrate to conserve oxygen, reinforcing skin and clothing against vacuum and increasing body heat generation. Maybe even forming a very thin forcebubble tight to the body.

I'd have been happier with a raggedy barely conscious Leia pulling herself back than the Statue Of Liberty gliding serenely back...
 
I've got really mixed feelings about this film.

The things I liked:
Some amazing visuals. The set pieces in this film blow TFA out of the water.

Hamill was excellent throughout, a great performance by him and shows a totally different side to the character.

The cinematography and direction was also great throughout. I thought the score was better than TFA on first viewing.

Despite complaints, I liked some of the humour. Was the 'on hold' gag any worse than the 'boring conversation anyway' one? I don't think so. Some of the other stuff landed well too, the scene where Luke tickles rey with the leaf was almost Luke emulating yoda. Some of the other Easter eggs were done ok too.

That's where the good stuff ends for me though.

The plot and writing were weak to say the least.

The leia flying scene was beyond ridiculous and felt like something out of a marvel film. Can you imagine a scene like this happening in the original trilogy? No way. It's like the scene existed soley so they could go 'hey we've killed off leia in the first act' then 'haha fooled you!'

I could get mad about people hearing star destroyers coming out of light speed from the surface of a planet but, I'll let that go given you shouldn't hear anything in space in any sci fi movie.

The entire premise of the chase was just sloppily done. It felt like speed 2 in space it dragged on that long. Why didn't the first order just go to light speed and surround them? Why oh why didn't the writers make the goal of the rebellion the aforementioned base in the first place instead of having the planet conveniently appear at the window?

Why go to the trouble of introducing snoke as this big mysterious big bad only to kill him off like a punk within no time at all?

What was the point of finn's side quest when it had no bearing on what happens? It's like they had no idea what to do with finn so just gave him a pointless mission and practically ignored what was driving his character. I would have forgived this if they'd have let him sacrifice himself.

The middle part of the film dragged, the story didn't justify the running time at all, it was just an overblown CGI fest and should have had 15 minutes trimmed in my view.

Don't get me wrong I still enjoyed myself and had a good time, but there was a lot of frustrating, dumb stuff that happened in this that I wasn't expecting. It's probably better than TFA overall, but not by much. I don't normally notice stuff like all this on first viewing at the cinema so alarm bells are ringing for me with this film. I need more viewings.

I vastly preferred Rogue One, which was tighter and felt more like a proper star wars film to me.

I give TLJ a 'C'
 
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Finn plunging towards the mouth of the cannon, seemingly to his death, then suddenly being rescued/sabotaged by an ally coming from the side reminded me of Jamie Lannister trying to kill the dragon before Bronn stopped him.
 
Just got back, and I was pleased to be able to see it on opening day with a matinee price, before the huge evening rush. The theater was still nearly full, so I suspect this weekend will be a good one for the theater.

B+

Overall I enjoyed it a lot. There's some good and interesting character development for quite a few people, and the visuals are quite impressive. I found the alternative ideas about the nature of the Force and the role of the Jedi Order to be interesting. Some elements were kind of mixed, like Luke's conversation with Yoda; it seemed to me like his new ghost was a bit off design wise, but maybe that's just me. I'm also a little surprised the Yoda destroyed the ancient library so readily, just to teach Luke about being able to look past the horizon.

When it comes to the negatives, there are a few problems. The biggest one is the chase scene with Leia's cruiser, which just isn't executed well in many ways. If the fuel dialogue is taken at real time, that means Snoke spent almost a full day pounding the ship for no tactical reason when there's several Star Destroyers basically doing nothing. And as has been mentioned, if the First Order has a pretty overwhelming advantage in resources, why not jump some ships in ahead of the cruiser? There's really not much to make sense of except for giving Finn and Rose time to do the casino planet.

I'm confused on why Admiral Holdo didn't bother to inform at least some of her crew about the cloaking devices, since Poe was able to recruit some of the fighter pilots in his mini-mutiny. Even though I agreed with Poe's demotion after his recklessness in the opening battle, she still could have been honest and completely avoided that with so much on the line. I admit I'm also a bit confused over whether Lt. Connix (Billie Lourd's character) was aware of the full plan or not, as she sided with Poe in the mutiny but yet was standing right next to the shuttle display on the bridge, and didn't argue when Holdo ordered Poe removed. It seemed like Holdo was another character that could have been a great supporting role, but the script wasn't sure how to do that effectively.

Part of the problem is that TFA didn't really give a clear background for how the First Order and the Resistance evolved out of their separate camps or what status of those governments was after the events of ROTJ. Making the Resistance so badly outgunned here only exacerbates that problem, IMO. The Rebel Alliance was born because some people saw past the lies Palpatine created that the Empire was just a new and better continuation of the Old Republic, or because they'd seen the Empire's darker sides, or they just wanted something better. Even within the context of A New Hope, which only created the basic framework, we saw enough resources to make the Rebel forces seem credible.

Snoke and Phasma suffered the short end of the stick when it comes to character development. I think Phasma is a really cool character, and her armor is sweet, but she got even less to do here than her supporting role in TFA. Her fight with Finn was great for a short time, but it seems like she's gone for good so there's nothing else to be done. I might be wrong, but the film seems to strongly imply she didn't survive. I wish Gwendolyn was giving the opportunity to do far more onscreen.
 
I kind if thought the thing with Leia was kind of silly too. I can accept her "surviving" in space for a short time since it's actually possible but her "force pulling" herself like that... Ehhh.... I dunno, I mean it seems like a lot to accept since Leia never showed (in the movies) this level of Force ability. I also wasn't really expecting her to come back and Governess Laura Den was the replacement following Fisher's death. I figured Leia would be left in "stasis" with no further update to her condition other than just saying she's at peace and will be in stasis indefinitely until her injuries can be healed. I though this was the way they'd write her out of the franchise without having to kill Leia.

And did I miss an "In memory of..." for Carrie Fisher?

The shot effect of the ship going to lightspeed through the First Order dreadnought was really damn cool, though it kind of raises some questions....

In "The Force Awakens" Han and Chewie engage the Millennium Falcon's hyperdrive while inside the landing bay of Han's ship and with one of the alien creature things clinging to the cockpit window, when the ship enters hyperspace it doesn't seem to "impact" anything as it would have to get out of Han's ship.

Here it seems like the ship was "physically" there enough to cut through the dreadnought and it seemed implied this was a fatal decision on the part of Governess Laura Dern and her ship was destroyed in the collision. Why would her ship be destroyed in this circumstance but the Falcon not destroyed when exiting Han's ship? It always seemed to me that the risks with hyperspace were collisions coming out of it in an unknown not entering it with obstacles ahead of you.
 
I was wondering about that too, since the film seemed to show the cruiser doing incredible damage to pretty much the whole Imperial unit even though it presumably shot straight through the dreadnought. I always had the impression that ships jumping didn't create any sort of energy effect in the space around them, whereas series like Babylon 5 and Battletech have shown instances where the energy from jumps can be dangerous to nearby vessels if they come in contact with it.
 
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