Spoilers Justice League - Grading and Discussion

[Relayer1]

I've seen a lot of people talking about how disjointed JL was and how it felt like two movies mashed together, but I didn't really see that at all.

Me neither. It didn't jar at all, and the moustache removal looked a lot better than I expected too.

The problem was, the film wasn't up to much. I'd been told it was enjoyable despite the reviews - it wasn't. And I DID enjoy BvS despite it's problems.

It's been said before that DC are making a mess of everything with unconnected film and TV universes, skipping origin stories, introducing villains before the heroes etc.etc., which is all true. Add in that JL was just plain DULL with a piss poor story and you're in trouble.

Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman were fine regarding characterisation, writing and casting. The rest less so.

I like Momoa but wasn't taken by Aquaman, who was not a favourite character anyway. I don't like Cyborg and JL did nothing to change my mind, and Flash, who is an O.K. character was just bloody awful. Writing, casting, costume, effects - the whole shebang : dire !

C+ from me, with a groan that I may have to see it again with my son when he gets back from Uni.

 

[crookeddy]

Did people talk about the "jarring" mash of styles because they knew going in about the directorial issues?
Did people talk about the "jarring" CGI on Henry Cavill because they knew going in that he had a mustache removed by CGI?
Did people talk about the rushed pacing because they knew about the studio mandated runtime restriction?
Did people talk about the weak villain and undeveloped character because they were trying to watch the movie as a critic, instead of an average joe just trying to be entertained?

 

[Gaith]

Actually, Hipppolyta says, "You may never return," which is much more ambiguous. It could indeed mean, "You can never return," but it could also simply mean, "You might never return."

Ok, thanks. I was thinking there was something more specific about her being prevented from ever entering the Themyscira again.

The script for Wonder Woman is a mess, with all kinds of major plot points, from Diana's age to whether Ares has been impersonating a British nobleman all his life, or merely controlling/influencing him for a few years (in which case, why does Ares' natural form look like Professor Lupin?). This is one more example.

Back to Justice League, its worldwide gross is currently $567m. Four years ago, Thor: The Dark World grossed $644m worldwide, and JL may not even match that. But! WB can take solace in the fact that Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman have already beat the $519m Ant-Man.

 

[General_Phoenix]

Really enjoyed the movie, although seeing Cyborg has really got me wanting a Teen Titans movie.

 

[DarKush]

I also really enjoyed the movie. I've seen it four times, in three different formats, and the only one I had an issue with was 3-D because I felt the lighting was too dark. But I enjoyed the other showings.

I don't get the hate for the film. It isn't perfect, but it is an entertaining film. I enjoyed the character interaction a lot. Whatever flaws the film has, or WB has made, they did get a group of actors who have chemistry together. I enjoyed the interaction quite a bit. I enjoyed all of the Justice League members, and was pleasantly surprised that Cyborg factored more into the film than I thought he would. I like how his tech comes from Apokolips and that it might eventually lead him down a dark path. I was also surprised that Aquaman didn't have a bigger role because I thought WB would be using this film to set him up more. But I liked Momoa. I do wish we had gotten a better look at Atlantis.

I thought Gal Gadot and Ben Affleck work well off each other, though Gadot did a really good job making Wonder Woman the center, the heart, of the team. She pulled off the Superman role better than Superman himself. I did like what the film was trying to do with Superman, but there's still a bit of stiffness there with Cavill. I am glad he was trying though and I hope he gets another chance. I also hope Affleck doesn't leave. I like his Batman. When I first heard he was going to be Batman I hated it. And I should've hated his take on the character in Batman V. Superman, but he won me over. I enjoyed his raw physicality the most. He moved and fought the most like Batman as I imagined him. I also liked the voice changer much better than Bale's gargling.

I also liked Steppenwolf. I'm okay with the arguments that he shouldn't have been completely CG, but I thought the design was cool for the most part. All the behind the scenes stuff likely led to his character not being well developed as he should've been, but I also took it as the movie wasn't about Steppenwolf. It was about establishing the Justice League members and selling them to the audience. Steppenwolf just needed to be credible enough a threat, and I think his introduction on Theymscira was pretty good. Also the flashback battle was great. I also think the final battle showed how formidable he was.

I also loved the end credit scenes. Jesse Eisenberg is really starting to feel like a legit Lex Luthor. And the Deathstroke armor and look were pretty cool. It was setting up something that looked like a lot of fun that we will likely not see.

 

[The Realist]

The script for Wonder Woman is a mess, with all kinds of major plot points, from Diana's age to whether Ares has been impersonating a British nobleman all his life, or merely controlling/influencing him for a few years (in which case, why does Ares' natural form look like Professor Lupin?). This is one more example.

More generously, the "you may never return" ambiguity could have been intentional (which is what I tend to to assume). I'm unsure why not stating Diana's age is a script failure, either. Was there some reason it needed to be specified?

 

[Anwar]

More generously, the "you may never return" ambiguity could have been intentional (which is what I tend to to assume). I'm unsure why not stating Diana's age is a script failure, either. Was there some reason it needed to be specified?

She seemed awfully naive for someone who was supposed to be thousands of years old.

 

[dahj]

More generously, the "you may never return" ambiguity could have been intentional (which is what I tend to to assume).

Yeah, I don't get what the big deal is anyway, in comics, cartoons and TV Diana hasn't been able to return to Themyscira for 76 years now, except when she can.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

Maybe she can get Hermes' winged sandals in WW2.

 

[Gaith]

More generously, the "you may never return" ambiguity could have been intentional (which is what I tend to to assume).

Which is fine by itself, but if JL assumes that we're supposed to remember than one line, and infer from the context that is forbidden to ever return, it becomes problematic. Also, if Hippolyta did mean that she would be disallowed from returning if she left, she either didn't make that clear to Diana at all, or there was something left out elsewhere that would have explained some rule about self-exile.

She seemed awfully naive for someone who was supposed to be thousands of years old.

Yep. Someone centuries-old, and who's read lots of books on sexuality and warfare, really shouldn't be confused about couples holding hands in public, or not know a basic military term such as "front". (But hey, audiences dug the fish-out-of-water/culture shock gags in Thor, so why pass up an opportunity to do the same? )

 

[crookeddy]

https://www.cbr.com/8-reasons-the-dceu-flash-is-better-than-the-cws-and-7-reasons-hes-worse/

 

[JD]

Maybe she can get Hermes' winged sandals in WW2.

Doesn't she already fly?

 

[Kai "the spy"]

Doesn't she already fly?

Not in the movies.

Anyway, in the George Perez run, Diana used the sandals of Hermes to cross the barrier between Themyscira and the World of Man.

 

[Velocity]

I took Hippolyta's "you may never return" line as sort of a "how ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm after they've seen Paree" type of thing. Once Diana has seen what the world has to offer and what she can give to the world, the ol' island might seem too small for her. In that sense, Hippolyta was being rather plaintive, because after all she loved Diana.

 

[Tosk]

Not in the movies.

Helluva leaper though. Tall buildings in a single bound, even.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

Yes, and when she did that lightning thing in the fight with Ares, she was able to float. Yet, oddly enough, no flying.

 

[Anwar]

WW's powers are all over the place due to inconsistent writing.

First, she seems strong enough to go head to head with Doomsday and even chop his hand off easily and not fear him at all. Then in her own movie she's in no real danger the whole time even against Ares and easily destroys him.

Then in JL she somehow can't chop through Steppenwolf as easily as she did Doomsday and when Superman is revived he easily manhandles her...despite the fact that Superman and Steppenwolf are both WEAKER than Doomsday.

 

[Showdown]

Wonder Woman was holding back when fighting Superman. She didn't even attack with her sword, only using it to cut the statue's head. Also Steppenwolf is a skilled warrior and have armor, unlike Doomsday. Her sword can cut through just about anything, most likely even Superman, but maybe not Apokolyptian armor and weapons.

 

[crookeddy]

$202,465,371 is the domestic total for JL going into the weekend.
$371,800,000 foreign for a total of
$574,265,371

Using profitability rules of half for domestic and a quarter for international we have Justice League at a net of $194,182,685.50. If the movie actually cost $300 million to make it won't get to profitability.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

$202,465,371 is the domestic total for JL going into the weekend.
$371,800,000 foreign for a total of
$574,265,371

Using profitability rules of half for domestic and a quarter for international we have Justice League at a net of $194,182,685.50. If the movie actually cost $300 million to make it won't get to profitability.

That number for foreign total is almost a week old.