so the producers and writers said that discovery will lead into TOS (60's aesthetics and all)...

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

Cannot solve it all. By TOS retire Discovery and any other crossfield class ships,uniforms and tech. Discomidate all Klingons we have see and expel them and their ships from the Empire?

Why does any of that need to happen to "solve" anything? TOS gives us only a small sample of stuff, limited to the Enterprise and the specific arenas she operates in, and what she encounters incidental to that. Other stuff can readily be going on in other places, different look and all. The Enterprise is already out there now, during DSC!

-MMoM

 

[fireproof78]

Here explain this one people, the Horta. There should be only one in existence. But here it is

KIRK: Those round silicon nodules that you've been collecting and destroying? They're her eggs. Tell them, Mister Spock.
SPOCK: There have been many generations of Horta on this planet. Every fifty thousand years, the entire race dies, all but one, like this one, but the eggs live. She cares for them, protects them. And when they hatch, she is the mother to them, thousands of them. This creature here is the mother of her race.


The Gorn skeleton and the tribble have no business being in his office either.

The Horta looks like it is being kept alive through artificial means, and the Gorn skeleton implies nothing other than they found an interesting skeleton.

I can overlook it as a screwup or inconsistency like "James R. Kirk", "Warbird" (instead of Bird of Prey), "Vulcanian" vs. "Vulcan", "Andoria" vs "Andor", etc. Nothing to get excited about.

Ultimately, though, all art, even commercial art, is a subjective experience and NO ONE can dictate to the audience how they "should" interpret it--so if someone wants to view it as "Prime" while another wants to view it as "reboot" and another as something else...c'est la vie.

Exactly.

Cannot solve it all. By TOS retire Discovery and any other crossfield class ships,uniforms and tech. Discomidate all Klingons we have see and expel them and their ships from the Empire?

Or, decide that we didn't see every single facet of Starfleet, Klingon and Federation culture in the 73 hours of TOS.

 

[Tuskin38]

By TOS retire Discovery and any other crossfield class ships,uniforms and tech.

Just because we didn't see any Crossfield classes in TOS doesn't mean they weren't out there.

Yeah the spore drive will more then linkely be gone by then, but I'm sure they can retrofit the class. It has a standard warp drive.

 

[Long Syntax]

For a significant number of posts in this thread I find myself shaking my head and muttering “it’s a freakin TV show - that’s why!”

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

Just because we didn't see any Crossfield classes in TOS doesn't mean they weren't out there.

Yeah the spore drive will more then linkely be gone by then, but I'm sure they can retrofit the class. It has a standard warp drive.

I don't even think they'll need to be retrofitted, because I think it was only Glenn and Discovery that got refitted with the spore drive and other bells and whistles to begin with, and any others (including the Crossfield herself) are still out there looking just like in the initial DSC teaser before they redesigned the ship!

-MMoM

 

[ralfy]

Still doesn't make it a modern TV show.

I don't understand what you mean by "modern TV show." Initially, I thought you meant something that is broadcast. But STD is released via streaming.

Also, that point was not meant to show that it's a "modern TV show." Rather, it's not some "historical re-enactment" but a continuation of TOS.

Because the non-trek fans probably wouldn't watch it, and they are trying to get both new and old fans.

That has nothing to do with my argument. What I wrote is that if a "modern TV show" is something that is broadcast through conventional means (i.e., free-to-air with commercials, which is what happened for many shows in the franchise), then STD also doesn't count as a "modern TV show."

 

[fireproof78]

then STD also doesn't count as a "modern TV show."

Since streaming platforms are becoming far more common for major studios, including CBS, streaming definitely follows on "modern" TV trends.

 

[marsh8472]

The Horta looks like it is being kept alive through artificial means

Too quick of a handwave there.

SPOCK: There have been many generations of Horta on this planet. Every fifty thousand years, the entire race dies, all but one, like this one, but the eggs live. She cares for them, protects them. And when they hatch, she is the mother to them, thousands of them. This creature here is the mother of her race.

There would be only one unhatched mature Horta in existence at this time: the mother that is shown on Janus IV in "The Devil in the Dark". The eggs began hatching at the end of episode "The Devil in the Dark" which would mean that the Horta shown in that episode was the only Horta in existence for the last 50,000 years.

 

[fireproof78]

Too quick of a handwave there.

SPOCK: There have been many generations of Horta on this planet. Every fifty thousand years, the entire race dies, all but one, like this one, but the eggs live. She cares for them, protects them. And when they hatch, she is the mother to them, thousands of them. This creature here is the mother of her race.

There would be only one unhatched mature Horta in existence at this time: the mother that is shown on Janus IV in "The Devil in the Dark". The eggs began hatching at the end of episode "The Devil in the Dark" which would mean that the Horta shown in that episode was the only Horta in existence for the last 50,000 years.

That Spock or Mama Horta are aware of.

Hand waves are classic Trek.

 

[marsh8472]

That Spock or Mama Horta are aware of.

Hand waves are classic Trek.

It doesn't appear that way

SPOCK: I've run a complete spherical check on all life forms, radius one hundred miles. I've located our men, all of them, and I've located one creature moving rapidly through native rock, bearing two hundred and one. And that is all.
KIRK: One creature in a hundred miles?
SPOCK: Exactly. Captain, there are literally thousands of these tunnels in this general area alone, far too many to be cut by the one creature in an ordinary lifetime.
KIRK: Then we're dealing with more than one creature, despite your tricorder readings, or we have a creature with an extremely long life span.
SPOCK: Or it is the last of a race of creatures which made these tunnels. If so, if it is the only survivor of a dead race, to kill it would be a crime against science.

It looks like in this universe/timeline/reality Lorca captured the mother 10 years earlier. Then the events we saw in "The Devil In the Dark" will never occur.

 

[fireproof78]

It doesn't appear that way

SPOCK: I've run a complete spherical check on all life forms, radius one hundred miles. I've located our men, all of them, and I've located one creature moving rapidly through native rock, bearing two hundred and one. And that is all.
KIRK: One creature in a hundred miles?
SPOCK: Exactly. Captain, there are literally thousands of these tunnels in this general area alone, far too many to be cut by the one creature in an ordinary lifetime.
KIRK: Then we're dealing with more than one creature, despite your tricorder readings, or we have a creature with an extremely long life span.
SPOCK: Or it is the last of a race of creatures which made these tunnels. If so, if it is the only survivor of a dead race, to kill it would be a crime against science.

It looks like in this universe/timeline/reality Lorca captured the mother 10 years earlier. Then the events we saw in "The Devil In the Dark" will never occur.

Based upon what, exactly? That Spock didn't know about it? Or, a similar lifeform evolved on another planet or was broought there by traders who didn't know what the "silicon nodules" were.

The Enterprise crew in TOS is not the end all measurement of Starfleet's knowledge or experience.

 

[marsh8472]

Based upon what, exactly? That Spock didn't know about it? Or, a similar lifeform evolved on another planet or was broought there by traders who didn't know what the "silicon nodules" were.

The Enterprise crew in TOS is not the end all measurement of Starfleet's knowledge or experience.

They confirmed in "after trek" that it was a Horta shown in that episode. It's not worth ruining the plot of episode "The Devil in the Dark" to avoid the contradiction here. It looks like this proves they are not in the same world as the other series afterall. That would make sense considering the deviations we have seen thus far in the series. This just helps confirm it.

 

[fireproof78]

They confirmed in "after trek" that it was a Horta shown in that episode. It's not worth ruining the plot of episode "The Devil in the Dark" to avoid the contradiction here. It looks like this proves they are not in the same world as the other series afterall. That would make sense considering the deviations we have seen thus far in the series. This just helps confirm it.

Nope.

 

[Lord Garth]

so the producers and writers said that discovery will lead into TOS (60's aesthetics and all)

I say this as a hardcore TOS fan who used to moderate the TOS Forum -- so I come with some street cred -- but... I hope not. I can't buy going from looking like Discovery to looking like TOS in just 10 years and to go from DSC to TOS, in my mind, is ridiculous. One looks like one and the other looks like the other.

The only way I can mentally buy into this is if the Spore Drive puts the multiverse into play and Discovery somehow eventually ends up in the Prime/TOS Timeline. Otherwise, it's too much of a mental stretch for me. I prefer to think of Discovery as a visual reboot.

If it leads into it, it leads into it, and that's what it is but I think there's a lot of suspension of disbelief you have to be willing to commit to.

But the same can be said for the jump for TOS to TMP, where everything looks completely different, so there we are. I've stretched my suspension of disbelief once before.

 

[marsh8472]

Nope.

The official database says this
http://www.startrek.com/database_article/horta

The Horta is a highly intelligent, silicon-based species, that is capable of tunneling through solid rock ike humans are able to walk through air.

Discovered on the planet Janus IV, the Horta is female, and lives below the planet's Federation mining facility.

Around stardate 3196.1, the Janus VI miners were suddenly attacked repeatedly by this creature, who as it turns out, was merely trying to protect her eggs. The miners were unaware that their mining posed a serious threat to both the Horta's unborn children and to the future of the entire Horta species.

ah well it's not in the same world as the other series, no biggy

 

[fireproof78]

The official database says this
http://www.startrek.com/database_article/horta


ah well it's not in the same world as the other series, no biggy

Again, it doesn't mean its a different universe. If Lorca never discloses his Horta, or if Discovery is lost, then the information will remain unknown to the Enterprise crew.

 

[marsh8472]

Again, it doesn't mean its a different universe. If Lorca never discloses his Horta, or if Discovery is lost, then the information will remain unknown to the Enterprise crew.

Yeah I'm not talking about the Enterprise crew not being aware of the existence of silicon life before either. But that's another issue, it would have to be kept secret by Lorca. The silicon nodules were in an area that was inaccessible until the miners breached it on the 23rd level. The idea of some nodule being transplanted to another planet a long time ago, survived the trip, survived in a new atmosphere and without their mother. Then somehow they captured it even though it killed so many people in "Devil in the Dark" and sedated it some how to put in Lorca's quarters. Kinda silly

 

[fireproof78]

Yeah I'm not talking about the Enterprise crew not being aware of the existence of silicon life before either. But that's another issue, it would have to be kept secret by Lorca. The silicon nodules were in an area that was inaccessible until the miners breached it on the 23rd level. The idea of some nodule being transplanted to another planet a long time ago, survived the trip, survived in a new atmosphere and without their mother. Then somehow they captured it even though it killed so many people in "Devil in the Dark" and sedated it some how to put in Lorca's quarters. Kinda silly

Then perhaps we should wait until the show finishes the first season to jump to conclusions.

 

[Ovation]

Then perhaps we should wait until the show finishes the first season to jump to conclusions.

You really have to stop talking nonsense like that. Sheesh.

 

[F. King Daniel]

It is ridiculous, but not for the reason you suggest. For one, it's ridiculous to have seen a few of the same classes over 225 years, which is something many fans have criticized for years. It's also ridiculous to suggest that the best interpretation of those seen in DSC must be that they appeared suddenly 10 years before TOS and "never ever again".

I'm sorry, are you suggesting I pretend we see those intentionally unique and redesigned DSC Klingons and Klingon ships in any other Trek series? Because I can assure you that we don't in 13 movies and 700+ episodes.

Alright, and the rest of us will treat you that way as well - rejecting reality and substituting it with your own, making it your own thing. I'm sure that's true in the Dan reality. Meanwhile, in the prime reality, the storytellers are concentrated on expanding the world of the original.

This is exactly what you are doing. The reality is that the Klingons and their ships, and indeed the entire world of Star Trek: Discovery was reimagined. Yet you want so badly to pretend it fits seamlessly with what's been depicted for the previous 50 years you're going so far as to mock and belittle people who are pointing out the obvious.

One major element of that is the very idea that the Klingons are not this monolithic society, and also that the empire is going through a transitional period leading up to TOS. If you reject that and imagine that your Klingons are still monolithic for 200 years and differences only exist in alternate realities, I think you're doing yourself a disservice and choosing to see a more shallow version of the stories.

I'm not speaking of alternate realities. I'm speaking of incompatible television show continuities. Klingons were depicted as monolithic. Now they're being depicted as a different kind of monolithic society - where they all uniformly don't have hair. Where they all uniformly have the reimagined makeup, including neck ridges and skin colours never before seen. Where they all uniformly fly in ships we've never seen before.

It's only in the world of your imagination zar, where this makes the Klingons a richer, deeper society. In real life, they swapped out one look for the other (once again, deliberately) for another one. You've cited Twitter and outside sources to justify your position before. Those same sources
explain why the DSC Klingons are bald and it's incompatible with Klingons having hair in other Trek series'. Oops.

It's you zar, who is rejecting reality and substituting it for a complicated Star Trek head-canon. And that's great, enjoy it! Just don't be a dick and try and force your imaginary view onto the rest of us.