Voyager season 7

[cosmic mouse]

I also give Beltran credit for his effortless portrayal just keeping it all together.

Agreed... and we seem to be in the minority on this, based on some comments I've read recently in another thread (at least regarding Beltran in general)

Btw, I don't even know what an R-board is. What's that?

What I meant was it's an "r-rated" board, like a film rating... it's supposed to be for adults who understand how to use profanities properly.

 

[cosmic mouse]

Erm, ah, well.... that was a bit, er... awkward?

...sooooo.... the fail-safe? I am not sure I understand the meaning for this or why it was activated now and not previously (E.G. when the Doc had an orgasm of sorts while occupying Seven's body in Body & Soul- why not then,but now?).
The ending to this one depressed me (slightly) and it's precisely because I am such a huge fan of Seven. She really showed how much weakness and uncertainty is still occupying her psyche... the fact that she did not in any way have the strength to even act on her practice sessions in reality, was a bit sad. Wasn't that the entire point? I think she must feel that the crew really is not in her corner or willing to support her, despite (on the part of some) extraordinary efforts to do so. I am surprised that she did not seek comfort in Janeway at the conclusion of this one. Janeway herself, imo, seemed a little detached and borderline out of character with her demeanor towards Seven here.
So, if it appears that I am confused by this ep it's because I am.. a little. I did enjoy it a lot though. I thought the holo-Chak was decent enough (and actually attempted to "teach" Seven to no avail, unfortunately). Jeri Ryan herself did a fantastic job imo and Beltran was solid enough. I also liked the small role that Icheb played here, both in support of, and maybe trying to “prompt” Seven a bit.

Though I do know that Seven and Chakotay become an item at some point I don’t know any details surrounding that development. I have read/heard numerous complaints on this subject and it seems almost universal that people (with a few exceptions of course) deride this as being false or not genuine. Well, to counter that opinion I will say two things: first, there is nothing logical about love (and this is coming from someone with a highly analytical and objective brain). Not one thing. It just happens the way it happens sometimes and, whether or not people agree with it, or can even see it for what it is, is beside the point. Now, it’s a bit different with entertainment outlets because I guess we (as viewers) are supposed to “logically” see the path taken that brings us to the point where the ends meet to form a circle of sorts. That brings me to my second point: we, as viewers, do see this… we see it in this episode. Seven picks Chakotay to “practice” with presumably because she admires him (she explicitly states this actually) and she clearly has other, unspoken feelings for him. You can clearly see this in the scene where they interact with each other in astrometrics. On the other side of the coin, even if one removes the holo-version of Chak from the equation, it’s pretty clear that he (the real Chakotay) may be developing feelings for her as well. He may be… we don’t truly know yet at this point because this is just the beginning. But there is a beginning here. He invites her to a social event at the conclusion, among other (more subtle) things… Seven declines his offer, but the intent and thought is there. So, I can see groundwork for this, despite what many have said about it coming out of left field. This episode also expounded even further on Seven’s character. I thought the role Janeway played in this one could have been improved upon (her “daughter’s” situation was turning into a true addiction, among other things, and the level of concern she had shown previously was not there, to my eyes), but other than that I thought it was fine.

And pardon the length of my post, but this ep seems to be a polarizing one, so I wanted to chime in. I could actually write a lot more on this one ep because, despite the wrath it seems to incur from a lot of fans, it seems to me to be a very thought-provoking character study.

 

[cosmic mouse]

I guess I killed my own thread with that last post... no matter! I'm almost finished with the series anyway.

Re: Human Error- is Icheb's transplanted cortical node to blame for this?

 

[Prax]

I like the episode, but it's always hard to watch someone spiraling into an addiction, and messing up their life.

 

[cosmic mouse]

I like the episode, but it's always hard to watch someone spiraling into an addiction, and messing up their life.

Correct. I know that all too well from personal experience, unfortunately...

 

[Prax]

So which episode are you on, @cosmic mouse ?

 

[cosmic mouse]

I've only gotten as far as Q2 (which is my least favorite of s7 so far)... your fav ep is next, but it's going to take me a little longer to get to it since I am a juror in a film festival on another board (among many things that are slowing me down these days).

 

[Refuge]

I guess I killed my own thread with that last post... no matter! I'm almost finished with the series anyway.

Re: Human Error- is Icheb's transplanted cortical node to blame for this?

It was a good read (the post you spoke of) and the illustration - brilliant

Since I'm on re-watches I always get a bit sad going through season 7. It's like time is running out.

 

[Prax]

It was a good read (the post you spoke of) and the illustration - brilliant

Since I'm on re-watches I always get a bit sad going through season 7. It's like time is running out.

Have no fear. Discovery will spore drive directly into your TV and save you..

 

[Refuge]

Have no fear. Discovery will spore drive directly into your TV and save you..

I can see them all, infinite permutations...

 

[cosmic mouse]

Author, Author was great... The Doc is not my favorite character, and this ep showcased part of why that is, but also honed in on some of the Doc's good points, whihc had a balancing effect for me. IMO, this episode's strongest feature is the interaction between the characters. There are other eps that do this, but it was particularly effective here. Combine that with the communications back to family, etc. and it really enhanced that "crew is family" feeling.
Friendship One was decent, but not nearly as memorable for me.... partly, the irradiated, alien species didn't stand out in any way and thematically, this one seemed more like a re-tread of past eps, though not done badly.

...only 4 episodes left!!

 

[Prax]

One thing I think Star Trek does very well, and Voyager especially, is balance humor. There's some absolutely hilarious episodes that are played totally straight-faced, and manage to keep the drama intact.

One of the funniest moments of the episode, ...well, besides this moment:

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Anyways, one of the funniest moments is when the Doctor is all upset at Paris for messing with his holonovel. They're walking down the corridor.

Paris says: "Listen, I don't care if the whole Alpha Quadrant mistakes me for Lieutenant Marseilles. What bothers me is that you think that's what I'm like."

EMH: "Obviously, you're nothing like Marseilles. He's self-indulgent, immature.

PARIS: "And how would you describe me?"

EMH: "Well...you're a married man...with a child on the way.......A lot of responsibilities."

It's a serious moment, but hilarious. The Doctor can't think of a single nice adjective to describe Tom.

As for Friendship One: I like that it gives a little in-universe history. I usually get this one confused with that episode about the astronaut, mars, Chakotay, Seven, etc.

And it was nice to see LT. Carey back. He last appeared in "Relativity," I think to give the viewer a sense of "Early Voyager." He's sometimes mentioned in episodes, but this is his first true appearance in quite a few seasons.

Very sad that he was killed. He's such a nice, likable fellow. It's sad to see any known characters die at this point. Besides 3 unknown crewmembers who die in "Equinox," there hasn't been a death since season 3 or 4.

The radioactive alien's leader was totally unreasonable. What an A-hole! And he's simply unreasonable because the plot needs it that way. Earth sent out a probe hundreds of years earlier. The aliens used the technology found in the probe, and then screwed themselves over. It's not Voyager's fault.

 

[cosmic mouse]

One thing I think Star Trek does very well, and Voyager especially, is balance humor.

Totally agree. If not for some of the humor in episodes such as Author, Author the series would not be nearly as enjoyable.
And it makes that "family vibe" that I mentioned earlier more believable. I can just picture walking down the corridor with one of my cousins for example, without a single positive factoid to say about her entering my mind.... but she doesn't care because she's family!

 

[Mareika]

To cosmic mouse Thank you so much for the great post about "Human Error". I like the lenght of the post. It`s really interesting to read. I`m glad you liked the episode. I also do. You made many good points about the episode. There are many of your thoughts I agree with. I`m from Germany and my English isn`t that good, so I´m not able to write what I think. You did it for me. Thank you.
Btw. I can`t watch the episode without thinking of Jery Ryan`s comment about kissing Robert Beltran in this episode.

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[cosmic mouse]

To cosmic mouse Thank you so much for the great post about "Human Error". I like the lenght of the post. It`s really interesting to read. I`m glad you liked the episode. I also do. You made many good points about the episode. There are many of your thoughts I agree with. I`m from Germany and my English isn`t that good, so I´m not able to write what I think. You did it for me. Thank you.
Btw. I can`t watch the episode without thinking of Jery Ryan`s comment about kissing Robert Beltran in this episode.

Thank you for the kinds word, Mareika... And I agree with Jeri Ryan in that video clip about how it was a lost opportunity to develop something during Natural Law (which I just watched). I also echo her sentiment that it was frustrating as an episode...especially since there were a couple of scenes between the two where it seemed they got so close to throwing in a small flirtatious exchange between them, but then BAM! they would just cut to the next scene. It would have been quite easy for them to have inserted just one extra line of dialogue, or even just a glance or motion between them... but no.
But, lol on her being nervous about kissing Beltran! I would have been nervous in that position as well, though my heart would have been beating like a jackhammer for more than nerves alone!

 

[cosmic mouse]

-Natural Law is charming. There's one tiny, itty bitty detail I would add that would immediately fix a great and longtime controversy here at trekbbs.

OK, which part are you thinking of exactly (or rather what exactly would you have added)?

 

[Prax]

You pretty much got it. When they go to sleep on the planet, she could have snuggle up next to him under the blanket, or maybe have her hold his hand, or maybe even just show them waking up, spooning.

I got it. She wakes up in the night/early morning and realizes she is spooning Cha-Ko-Tay(or rather, being spooned), her first instinct is to get up, then she hesitates, and stays put. -something subtle, and unspoken.

As it is, I think it's okay, and makes sense. She's already fallen in love with him. Maybe the feelings began in the episode with the Mars astronaut. As for Chakotay, he's a lover, and his options are severely limited. He gave up on Janeway like 4 seasons ago. She's since had her own romantic flings, they're in a good place as friends.

He can't start dating a crewmember, and he ain't getting any younger.

 

[cosmic mouse]

Spooning is the somewhat sappy, still satisfactory simple solution suitably sustaining the Starfleet swarm.

Sure

 

[cosmic mouse]

I just watched Endgame, which means I've officially concuded my first view of Voyager. Assuming I started around June that's around a 6-1/2 month journey back from the Delta Quadrant.

But first a couple of quick words about Homestead and Renassaince Man before I get to Endgame.
Both were good episodes, though neither will probably stick out on my radar, with the exception of Neelix's departure (this was justified and logical in my opinion, plus he exited the series the same way he arrived: via viewscreen). Renaissance Man was decent enough, and especially since most of the crew was involved in some way, but I thought season 7 was a bit heavy on the Doc overall and this ep was no exception to that.

Speaking of season 7 generally, it was a good season, but not among my top 3 or 4, mainly due to the plateau of Janeway's character and a few other little things. J kind of tailed off a little imho, and in Endgame some of the Admiral's behavior seemed downright out of character. Just my opinion, but this was a significant detractor from both Endgame and s7 as a whole. Both were still very good overall. I liked Endgame as a finale and, though in the minority, I do like Chakotay and Seven together. I think they do have some, mild chemistry and would have had a great deal more if the development of Chak in particular had been stronger throughout, and if a couple of little scenes between the two had been inserted into Natural Law and Ren Man. That's all it would take for me to wholeheartedly accept the paring. As it stands, I support it and think it just didn't quite live up to its full potential.

Other stuff:

-The Borg armor in Endgame was pretty cool and it reminded me of the batmobile coating the ship. And lol on the Doc's “trophy” wife who mildly resembles Seven...
-Tuvok is probably my third favorite character after Seven and Janeway and this was clinched in the finale. Chak just got beat out due to being unrealized as a well-rounded dude, albeit a very sexy one.
-Seven of Nine might be my favorite sci fi character, but I'd have to think about that one. She's in the running anyway, and one could craft an entire series just about her. She was great and my single favorite thing about Voyager, if I had to pick something.
-Counterpoint is my favorite single episode followed probably by Scorpion 1 & 2 and then Distant Origin.
-Other standouts for me: Drone, Hunters, Future's End, Voyager Conspiracy, The Gift, Persistence of Vision, and Blood Fever. But I enjoyed the entire series from start to finish.
-finally, here's how I'd ranked the seasons from best to worst: 5,4 (very close there), 3, 6, 7, 2, 1

Thanks to everyone who commented on and kept up with these threads over the months.

 

[Thomas Eugene]

Fantastic. When will you start your VOY rewatch?

I guess now you understand why I don't like ENDGAME. Janeway was so much not herself!

Other than that it was not a bad finale. Like I often said, the only real problem with VOY for me is that it lasted 7 seasons ... instead of 25.

But minor things could have been changed, like C/7 or the whole ENDGAME thing (I don't mean getting rid of C/7, just prepare us for it better). Also, my ideal ending would have been if Voyager had never made it back to the AQ.

If you liked Seven so much, you'd probably like the relaunch books so I recommend them. There's a lot of stuff there about her - surprise, surprise.

Me, I'll stick to Janeway as my fav character. Ever. Esp. in science fiction. Closely followed by Tommy. Everyone else comes third and I love them all, incl. Kes. They are family ... every other show could take a leaf out of their book to see what a really good family show is like.

In contrast to you, I don't like Neelix's departure. Getting rid of a main character a few eps before the end is a dumb idea for me. Throwing Kes out sucked, I think but that was at least relatively early in the show.

Having said that HOMESTEAD is a beautiful ep.

It's a pity they never gave us a good VOY movie. Or even a bad one. These guys would have looked fantastic on the big screen!

Oh, and how I wish we had had a (new) series with the Borg as the main villain. But no, it had to be the Klingons .. for the umpteenth time ... Meh ...

Anyway, glad you have enjoyed VOY. Have fun with TNG - I personally can't bear to watch Mr. Anal and his crew ... but hopefully you'll have more success with that. There's every chance of that for you if for nothing else then for Data's ginger cat ...

Greetings from the DQ!