• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Spoilers marsh8472's Consolidated Continuity Thread

Why does warp drive in Star Trek Discovery look so different?

  • Starfleet is employing advanced propulsion technology on their ships in addition to the Spore Drive

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Star Trek Discovery is showing correctly, every other series looks abnormal actually

    Votes: 1 4.8%
  • Nothing is wrong at all, everything is consistent everywhere

    Votes: 10 47.6%
  • Discovery is in a seperate timeline from TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT

    Votes: 3 14.3%
  • Star Trek Discovery's visual effect of the warp drive is incorrect

    Votes: 1 4.8%
  • Other

    Votes: 6 28.6%

  • Total voters
    21
I'm pretty sure they're ignoring TOS/KT and TMP uniforms. It looks to me that the DSC unis are prequels to the Wrath of Khan Space Mountie costumes.

With elements of all the TNG-era outfits thrown in too (pips, shoulder stripes etc)
 
Discovery went a little too far ahead of its time there?
10-actually-happy-moments-in-the-world-of-game-of-thrones-539482_1024x1024.jpg
 
(In in-universe terms, even the patches are badges.

That is, there are plenty of shots where the patches go missing or are on the wrong side. A natural thing out-universe, with keywords like "laundry" and filming concepts such as "flipping of shots for balance", but a mystery greater than the Murasaki Quasarlet in-universe, unless the patches detach and reattach just as easily as Philippa Georgiou's surviving earthly remains.)

Timo Saloniemi
 
I've been corrected on this point before. I'm glad you brought it up. Even if saying "canon" is incorrect, if it becomes common enough it becomes a standard then it becomes correct. Given how often I've seen "canon" used to describe continuity I think it's acceptable now.
Um, do you realize EAS doesn't even support you on this? He describes continuity as "compliance" or "adherence" to existing canon (which is completely in line with @Nerys Myk was saying), not defining canon, as you're saying.

And the part you quoted didn't even have anything to do with continuity. He was nitpicking grammar (using the noun "canon" as an adjective instead of "canonical"). Incidentally, Nerys also happened to correctly use "canon" as a noun, which makes your whole tangent entirely pointless.
 
Um, do you realize EAS doesn't even support you on this? He describes continuity as "compliance" or "adherence" to existing canon (which is completely in line with @Nerys Myk was saying), not defining canon, as you're saying.

And the part you quoted didn't even have anything to do with continuity. He was nitpicking grammar (using the noun "canon" as an adjective instead of "canonical"). Incidentally, Nerys also happened to correctly use "canon" as a noun, which makes your whole tangent entirely pointless.
But you do realize that they say it is quite common to do that.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/canon?s=t

Definition number 10 says this
established or agreed-upon constraints governing the background, narrative, setting, storyline, characters, etc., in a particular fictional world:
It’s accepted as canon that vampires are harmed by sunlight.
 
na Harry Mudd was only in a handful of episodes. But when we go through ENT, TOS, TAS, and even in star trek 2009 without seeing starfleet crew members wearing metallic pin badges it doesn't really fit in too well does it. This pretty much normalizes anything futuristic that was never seen anywhere during that era. But as you would probably say "it doesn't technically violate continuity because of the black swan fallacy" :wtf:
Except TOS and TMP are the odd ones. Right now ENT, DSC, TWOK, and TNG firmly establish that Starfleet has always used metallic uniform attachments to indicate rank. Delta badges are also metallic and detachable, wherever present (they are not present in ENT). ENT even showed the Terran Empire using metallic badges at that time. You're confusing continuity with nostalgia. If DSC was released first and TOS last, this thread would look a bit different.
 
Badges are fine, indeed it seems these badges double as filling in the role of dog tags, as evidenced by Georgiou's name and serial number being seen on the back of her badge this week. Which makes it even more odd Michael doesn't have a badge, even one without rank insignia. Shouldn't the convicted mutineer on a work release have some sort of identification on her?
Even more oddly, she had one on her prison suit.
 
Even more oddly, she had one on her prison suit.
It would probably make the most sense for her not to be issued a Starfleet badge, but her prison badge to be transferred to her uniform.

Maybe she was supposed to do that, but she threw it out. Saru complained profusely about how improper it was, and Lorca replied "Don't care."
 
That wasn't the implication at all. With enough effort you can make just about ANYTHING work.

The point is, canon builds don't make a lot of sense from a practicality standpoint, and this is mainly because torpedoes in that game are DESIGNED to be somewhat impractical because otherwise it would be incredibly silly to use anything OTHER than torpedoes. It's not just STO, almost all space opera games are guilty of this same illogic when it comes to torpedo weapons: missiles and torpedoes are all heavily nerfed in some way because otherwise unskilled players would use missiles exclusively, as those give them the ability to one-shot-kill more advanced players and completely eliminate the incentive to BE more skilled in the first place. That basically kills the PVP crowd that alot of those games depend on for their revenue and player base. So they have to keep missiles weak and/or useless so that people who put in a shit ton of time and/or money grinding to get a more impressive build can still reign supreme. Another example of this is Elite Dangerous, where torpedo weapons as originally envisioned would allow small ships to wreck larger ones by firing torpedoes three or four at a time. The first revision of the game, they limited the amount of ammo you can carry in a single torpedo launcher (they used to be stored in the cargo bay, now you can only ever carry one per tube and then you have to reload at a starbase). Then they doubled the price of the things, then they limited their effectiveness against subsystems. Torpedoes went from highly practical and effective weapons in the alpha and beta versions to being really expensive gimmicks in the full game, becoming useful only once you complete a long and convoluted side quest in "The Engineers" to have them upgraded.

STO shares the same videogame PVP mechanic that deliberately makes torpedoes less useful than they should be
so grind players can have a good time with it. Getting killed every two seconds isn't particularly fun for most people, but the game is designed so that the solution to "get killed a lot" is to level up over time. If torpedoes worked the way they SHOULD, leveling up over time wouldn't make alot of difference and players would have to invest in point defense systems or more advanced shields, which would kind of mess up the game's internal ecosystem since it puts high end projectile weapons at a premium along with equally high-end defense systems. You have a literal arms race in a market that tops off pretty quickly; can't have that.

The Trek universe, as I said, has different problems: the writers just didn't think of it. Realistically, a single torpedo ought to detonate with enough explosive force to flatten a small city (think of the core detonation from ST09 when they escaped the black hole). If somebody takes your shields down and locks a torpedo on you, you either run away or surrender, because if you get hit, you're DEAD.


Yes, though for entirely different reasons, which makes the effect almost an accident. Even at their current level of performance, they still had to be modified (with the long reload times and limited range) in order to be comparable.
IMHO, you are WAY overestimating what a single torpedo should do. The game matches up what the shows and movies do. Here is a clip from the mid-season finale (Lorca is such a badass)
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
It took 8 torpedoes to destroy an unshielded ship.

That matches up pretty much exactly with how Star Trek Online plays out. If you are upset that it takes that many torpedoes, then your issue is with the canon shows and movies, not the video game based on them. The games weapons match up with what we see on the show.

And good grief, torpdedos aren't "useless". Used in a spread, such as what Lorca does in the clip, they provide burst damage -- i.e. a whole bunch of damage all at once. The beam weapons tend to slowly whittle down the enemy ship's defenses, the torpedoes do a massive amount of damage all at once that makes it much more difficult for the targeted ship to recover from it.

The strategic catch to the torpedos is that they are less effective against shields. That is why in straight up fights the combination of beams and torpedoes is a good idea. You can whittle down their shields and then let loose a spread of torpedoes to finish them off when the shields are down. (A nice feature of the Quantum Phase set that I used in my demo video upthread is that they have an AoE that actually does good shield drains, so that set is even better for all around combat.)

If your issue is with the power of torpedoes in the actual shows, then complaining about the fact that Star Trek Online makes the game torpedoes match what we see on the shows doesn't make sense to me.

The power of torpedoes in the game matches the power that we see on TV. It took 8 torpedoes to destroy the Klingon ship on the TV show, and that matches about what you need to destroy a ship in the game after you eliminate their shields.
 
The way the series incorporates old skool & next-gen sound effects for launching torpedoes & ambient bridge sounds is pretty cool.

The torpedo sound is really cool. It sounds like it's in slow motion compared to TNG and other earlier series, and with a little more echo added.

Without going back for a rewatch, has the Discovery ever used phasers?
 
Against the BoPs at the mining colony, and again when defending the Gagarin. Worked pretty well the first time, not so much the second time.

Timo Saloniemi
 
The torpedo sound is really cool. It sounds like it's in slow motion compared to TNG and other earlier series, and with a little more echo added.

Without going back for a rewatch, has the Discovery ever used phasers?
Here's a clip that features the Discovery using phasers. It also features a segment that the Lorca haters seem to not be able to handle. He is acting pretty heroic for the "villain" that they keep trying to make him be. ;)
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
 
Except TOS and TMP are the odd ones. Right now ENT, DSC, TWOK, and TNG firmly establish that Starfleet has always used metallic uniform attachments to indicate rank. Delta badges are also metallic and detachable, wherever present (they are not present in ENT). ENT even showed the Terran Empire using metallic badges at that time. You're confusing continuity with nostalgia. If DSC was released first and TOS last, this thread would look a bit different.
Seems like the 2260s and 70s just had some really bizarre fashion choices :D
 
Here's a clip that features the Discovery using phasers. It also features a segment that the Lorca haters seem to not be able to handle. He is acting pretty heroic for the "villain" that they keep trying to make him be. ;)
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
That scene is great. Lorca's reaction honestly reminded me of Captain Pike and his frustrations of having to make life or death reactions. I could honestly picture Pike in similar situations.
 
The ENT uniform did not have a metal badge as it looks inspired by the blue flight suits worn on the ISS. (reminds me of the USCG ODU also) , but a few years later the Franklin uniform did have the metal arrowhead badge. That leaves TOS uniforms as the only ones with a fabric arrowhead on the front. I suspect if they do show Constitution uniforms as separate, they will be more like Abrams-verse uniforms with the metal badges.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top