Just watched it.
They made it clear from the dialogue that Yaphit was affected as well, and was the one to transmit it to Claire.
I thought it was another four star outing. Fun to watch.
THE ORVILLE S1, E9: "CUPID'S DAGGER"
- Thread starter Mudd
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Just watched it.
They made it clear from the dialogue that Yaphit was affected as well, and was the one to transmit it to Claire.
I thought it was another four star outing. Fun to watch.
If Yaphit was infected why wasn't it towards Rob Lowe like with Ed and Kelly? It seemed he was a cartier without being infected hence why Claire fell for him when contact ocurred.
The ambassadors were not attracted to Lowe, so it seems to be the chemical, not the source, that determines the attraction.
When I watched the episode before reading reviews and comments, I didn't make any connection with what's happening in America with the sexual harassment and assault claims situations. But I did see the aspect of our characters having sex against their will because they were drugged by an alien.
It's a common staple in sci-fi, but usually, it's either characters who already have some level of attraction between each others, even if sometimes they are not willing to admit it (thus the alien stuff is just giving them a little or too strong push) or antagonist characters. When it's antagonist characters (like Seven and B'elenna in Voyager), they are antagonistic in term of opinion and personalities. It's not like one character is sexually harassing the other character like it's the case with Yaphit and Finn. For example, Seven and B'Elenna could have contracted a disease that compelled them to have sex with each others. It's bad because those characters don't like each others but at the same time, Seven didn't sexually harass B'Elenna against her will for a couple of episodes. Trying to get in bed with her. As you said, Finn didn't feel flattered or humored by Yaphit advances and the writers made it clear in that very episode. She was willing to file an official complaint against him.
But that said. The "forced" sexual relationship between Finn and Yaphit was not in Yaphit fault at all. He didn't roofied her. As you know and we often see in romantic movies. Sometimes, there's a fine line between love and hate. Sometimes a woman (in this case) don't like a guy coming on to her. She doesn't stop talking about him to her friends about how he's stupid, don't stop asking her on dates stupidly and look bad, but then she ends up marrying him. I'm not a psychologist but maybe she couldn't stop talking about how she hated him because she was not willing to admit to herself that she liked him. We often see that type of situations in romantic movies (I'm not sure how common it is in real life).
All this to say, Yaphit can't be blamed for the situation. He was possibly also affected by the alien pheromones and may have just felt that Finn changed her tune about him or was at least willing to have a wild night with him. Since it was the same day she came hard against him (threatening an official complaint), it's possible she felt she went too far and decided she was, after all, attracted to him. At the same time, Yaphit was blinded by his own attractiveness to Finn. If he was not drugged, he just felt his sexual advances finally worked. So I can't blame him. Even if Paris in Voyager, was much fairer and a true gentleman with B'Elenna when faced with a similar situation. True and better, husband material for sure. Yaphit is only obnoxious imo.
When I watched the episode, I felt it was really Darulio the real rapist. When I watched the episode, I felt Kelly was actually drugged and raped by Darulio in the pilot, same with Mercer in the episode. Darulio knows about his pheromones situation and take advantage of it to have sexual relationships even if he can't help himself. Since he knows about his own "pheromones" situation. He's the one who must take the responsibility to tell other people about the situation (touching him lead to being roofied) and mitigate this problem (wear gloves or, be careful who you touch, if it happens tell them and keep your distance, etc). He even broke a couple.
So the situation with Finn didn't shock me as much as the Darulio-Kelly-Mercer situation. Darulio should face the consequences of his actions and inactions or at least have a solid interplanetary talk about this. Unfortunately, this aspect was not discussed in this episode.
Sorry for the long post...
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Yep, but when you say that I don't think it can be done, you're wrong because it has been done! I like The Orville, but let's not kid ourselves that it's up there with the greats. I love it because its a fun romp. And, that's just fine.
It would only be rape if Finn thought it was...her actions later seems to suggest she didn't view the encounter with Yaphit as such..plus they might not of have had what we would defined as sex anyway..Yaphit wrapped his body around her but for all we know it just a messy hug....I bet we get some follow up on this that may clear how she viewed the encounter.
Agreed. The people affected were in a mental state that didn't allow them to provide informed consent. They were drugged.
I wouldn't say that Yaphit was guilty. Blue guy was because he knew what was going on. And, whoever infected the diplomats is too.
But, it's really akin to a date rate drug. Blue guy used it. And, he also left it around where unsuspected individuals got caught up in it. But, really, it's not a subject to be made fun of or taken lightly. It's more the tone of the show that is the problem. That this type of thing is a source of hilarity rather than the trauma it would cause. It's poor taste.
C'mon you're splitting hair here. If you think only one TV show in history, called Mash, did it the way you like it. You're basically saying you personally don't think it can be done on a regular basis and Mash is the exception confirming your rule. It's actually done in many TV shows at various degrees (Star Trek, Doctor Who, Stargate, Farscape, etc, etc) as it was in previous Orville episodes beside this one. Doctor Who, Stargate and Farscape certainly have more humor than typical episodes of Star Trek (and aren't only comedy either) and are still great and popular TV shows. So did episodes like About a Girl and Majority Rule who had both humor and serious drama. I think this episode is the only Orville episode with no serious moments as part of the main story (the Alien conflict start serious but ends up as not even being a b story, it stays in the background, and ends on a ridiculous notes without much happening).
The Orville is meant by the writers of the show as a "an hour-long drama with comedy". This episode contrary to the others, was only comedy. People can read about it here:
https://trekmovie.com/2017/10/23/in...teway-and-how-futurama-landed-enterprise-job/
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Seriously?! Are you misinterpreting me on purpose or what? I just named one example for crying out loud. That doesn't mean it's the only example!
I do love many of the shows you mentioned: Star Trek, Doctor Who, Stargate. Haven't seen Farscape . . . yet. I wouldn't describe them as deep and full of meaning for the most part. Star Trek has the patina of trying to be deep and meaningful drama. It is more serious that The Orville, which can be both good and bad depending on the episode. DW and Stargate not much at all. They're both just mainly for fun.
I like fun shows, and The Orville is great at that! I'm not knocking it at all. So, I'm not quite sure what you're upset about? Because I'm not saying it's amazing drama?
I can't read your mind, I just go with what you've written. Now, I understand your point of view. You don't even consider Doctor Who and Stargate as mixing drama with comedy. For you, Doctor Who and Stargate are mostly comedy with almost no drama or serious parts. Only Mash mixed drama and comedy the way you like it. I do consider Doctor Who and Stargate (and Star Trek) as shows with a lot of meaning and serious drama (as well as comedy, action, etc).
I feel the humor in those shows comes naturally from the characters personality. For example, in Stargate if they find a planet where people age very fast (the episode Brief Candle). It's not treated as a comedic situation. The characters take part in the situation seriously even if there was funny moments in the episode (maybe O'Neill making funny remarks, or having funny conflict with Daniel about the next course of action, etc).
Beside personal opinions. The show is meant as a "drama with comedy". IMO, the other Orville episodes had a good mix of humor, serious moments and drama, but it was not the case with this episode.
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You made a lot of assumptions about what I was saying well beyond what I actually said. When someone says, "here is an example," that doesn't mean it's the only example!
At any rate, I don't think DW and Stargate really had much drama. Stargate was more action-adventure with plenty of humor. God, I loved that show because of that combination!
I've loved DW for decades and watched the original series while it was airing. It's not so much action but more adventure. Maybe a light drama with some humor and lots of quirkiness. While the focus is on solving problems with intelligence rather than force, I wouldn't classify it as an "intellectual" show that is deep in meaningful drama.
Both are fun and I love them for that. But, no, I don't think either has much deeper meaning or drama. They're not serious.
In my opinion, The Orville is at its best when it's higher on the comedy than the drama. I thought the episode with the Facebook Likes/Dislikes worked really well in that regard. So was the one when they infiltrated the Kress (not sure about the name) to get their religious book. That one was my favorite episode so far. Comedy, adventures, with slight undertones of something more but not real strong drama for either one. If it loses the comedy, it's becomes another TNG.
Well, to each their own. However, I have been enjoying The Orville greatly and I'm glad it is renewed. Maybe we're enjoying it in different ways, which is also fine.
What other example than Mash can you provide? I thought at the very least, Stargate and Doctor Who were good examples! From my perspective you only named Mash as doing it the way you like it.
I also added this part to my previous post:
I feel the humor in those shows comes naturally from the characters personality. For example, in Stargate if they find a planet where people age very fast (the episode Brief Candle). It's not treated as a comedic situation. The characters take part in the situation seriously even if there was funny moments in the episode (maybe O'Neill making funny remarks, or having funny conflict with Daniel about the next course of action, etc).
Of course, Stargate (and Star Trek for that matter) are not a slit-your-wrist-after-the-show-because-human-nature-is-evil drama, but it does mix action, adventure, meaningful parts, drama and comedy to various degrees (all of it through sci-fi prism, of course).
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My goal was not to bombard you with every single example that I can think of! I was providing one example to illustrate the type of show that I was talking about. Plus, it's late here! 2:30AM! So, I'm going to bed!
And, when I say that I don't see either DW or SG1 as high drama, I certainly don't mean it is a complaint. Like I said, I think both are fantastic shows. Shoot, I've been watching DW for nearly 40 years. I traveled to London from the States for its 50th anniversary celebrations!
I know. You bombarded me with one example. And it's not even sci-fi! Cop-out!
Interesting episode. By Darulio's standards, nothing was wrong - until the possibility of a big messy war came up.
This just makes him *alien.* By human standards, what he did was wrong. By his people's though, it wasn't. Why are people judging him as if he was human? He's not. It's part of what makes him alien - different ideas of what is right and wrong.
I do like that he didn't let Kelly off of the hook though. I think he saw what she was trying to do and knew that for her and for Ed, it was the wrong answer to just say "oh yeah, I just chemically seduced her." He no doubt figured out that there were issues that needed to be worked out between them and had there been that easy pat answer, they wouldn't have truly delved into why their relationship failed.
This just makes him *alien.* By human standards, what he did was wrong. By his people's though, it wasn't. Why are people judging him as if he was human? He's not. It's part of what makes him alien - different ideas of what is right and wrong.
I do like that he didn't let Kelly off of the hook though. I think he saw what she was trying to do and knew that for her and for Ed, it was the wrong answer to just say "oh yeah, I just chemically seduced her." He no doubt figured out that there were issues that needed to be worked out between them and had there been that easy pat answer, they wouldn't have truly delved into why their relationship failed.
Although, Yaphit did show Finn in a previous episode that he had a very hard "tentacle" ready for action...
IMO, it is his interactions with humans that is the problem. If he knows that by human standards what he's doing is wrong, a great crime (drugging people to have sex with them aka rape) then why does he keep doing it? At the very least, there's a need to have a serious interplanetary talk with him and his people to mitigate the pheromones situation. So humans and other alien beings can interact with his people without having unwanted sexual relationship with them just because they were touched by them.
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