Speculation on other Starships we might encounter?
- Thread starter AaronMorse
- Start date
Good catch! Hadn't noticed that before. That "Klingon Warship" looks more like a Romulan heavy cruiser out of Taldren's Starfleet Command video game.
yeah is that the bird of prey? i mean "bird of prey", cuz...
Not a bird of prey, but some other bird-like thing. Really tired of birds being attributed to the Klingon culture - was never supposed to happen that way but TSFS screwed it all up and was perpetuated for decades. I really do like Discovery as a whole, but the Klingon ships are a particular mess, sadly (IMO).
yes and enterprise perpetuated the problem by creating the 22nd century bird of prey, which was so unnecessary.
i kind of like the not-D7-D7 from a few episodes back, but why'd they call it that? and from what i could tell, it closely resembled the jem'hadar battlecruiser, a design i like very much. but it's hard to see. most ships on discovery are hard to see. on the whole, i really dislike the klingon designs for discovery as well. they're baroque, someone should fix them.
Plus don't forget the ubiquitous "Warbird" nomenclature, which the Abramsverse films appropriated for their versions of the D-7 (that look a lot more like a proper D-7 than Discovery's version does).
excuse me, it's called the kelvin timeline.
and also enterprise broke that toy first, see: "broken bow".
do not see memory-alpha, they still refer to it as "alternate reality", barf.Yes, quite right. I've lost track of all the various improper uses of the designation.
btw if i'm not mistaken, in "choose your pain", the klingon ship lorca, ash and mudd are being held aboard is referred to as a D7, klingon prison vessel, and bird of prey at varying points throughout the episode.
Huh... I remember "D7" and "prison ship" (which has led some to speculate that they got transferred somewhere along the way), but I don't recall "bird of prey" also being used. Honestly, though, it wouldn't surprise me if that was, in fact, said. The stories of this show are quite good but some of the smaller technical nuances seem to be eluding the writers.
Yeah it gets called D7 Battlecruiser by the shuttle, Prison ship by Ash, "Bird of Prey" by Saru, and also "Bird of Prey" by Tilly in episode 6. Discovery is really really bad about creating a consistent naming system in their scripting for Klingon ships in particular, but also graphical consistency as well on ships panels.
i've noticed the occasional graphic of the early version of discovery showing up in engineering too.
that press walkthrough of the discovery bridge from before the pilot also showed the early discovery in plan view on various monitors. unsure how far into production they got with that version in the set decoration, wondered if they'd actually used CGI to digitally insert the correct discovery graphics into scenes on the bridge.
and this totally not ugly son'a ship, err klingon ship is referred to as a "destroyer":
I feel the issue is they burned too much budget on superfluous things, lack of coordination between graphics designers on set and producers making changes on the fly, and finally rewriting of scenes that translate only in script but not on set or in VFX. I see it as too many hands in the cookie jar muddying up the water some.
Not surprising. This happens a lot, actually.
The CIC in NuBSG had TOS BSG ship schematics (drawn by me, interestingly, back in the early 90's) on some of their monitors, long before they came up with the "ribbed, for her pleasure" design for the new show.
Phase II stuff was also seen in the background on various TMP sets. All that stuff usually gets built long before post is done, in between which things invariably change.
this happened as late as season 3 DS9 as far as i can remember, "the search" included early, incorrect diagrams of the USS defiant in the master situations display.
we know the directive from the creators was to diversify the klingons physically, as seen in the varying degrees of klingon-ness in the makeup. seems the VFX people had a similar directive, but ended up stripping out anything that identifies them as A. klingon and B. at all related to one another.
looking at the bird of prey, it almost looks like they used the D4-class bird of prey from star trek into darkness as a jumping off point, not the traditional one that was the basis for that one. so it's like a 3rd generation design that has unfortunately lost its roots. this is speculation on my part, obviously, we don't know the history of these designs yet. i'd be very interested to learn the process that got us where discovery's klingon ships ended up.
I don't get this insistence that Klingons having birds is somehow wrong.
It's consistent: they do have ships named Warbirds and Birds of Prey, and Raptors if one wants to use the vaguely avian interpretation of that word.
It's also fitting: they all look like birds, with wings and a beak.
It's a Klingon thing, is all. And quite probably a thing for three dozen other species, considering how natural it is to associate flying things with, well, flying things.
Most of Star Trek was "never supposed to happen": the Federation nevertheless happened and stuck, intense Vulcan emotion came and went and then came again and stuck. Heck, even the Klingons only happened because they couldn't afford all those expensive Romulan ears. But what did happen became "real" at that very moment. And it's not as if there's ever been a drawback.
Timo Saloniemi
It's consistent: they do have ships named Warbirds and Birds of Prey, and Raptors if one wants to use the vaguely avian interpretation of that word.
It's also fitting: they all look like birds, with wings and a beak.
It's a Klingon thing, is all. And quite probably a thing for three dozen other species, considering how natural it is to associate flying things with, well, flying things.
Most of Star Trek was "never supposed to happen": the Federation nevertheless happened and stuck, intense Vulcan emotion came and went and then came again and stuck. Heck, even the Klingons only happened because they couldn't afford all those expensive Romulan ears. But what did happen became "real" at that very moment. And it's not as if there's ever been a drawback.
Timo Saloniemi
because it's emblematic of sloppiness that some star trek fans seem unable to accept.
we all know the history of the bird of prey dating back to the search for spock and the non-canon explanation that it was a child of the technology shared between the klingons and the romulans. that unspoken history factored into our perception of the ship through TNG and DS9 and voyager. enterprise retroactively added the bird of prey to the 22nd century and subverted that perception. the series also attributed "warbird", a term that was exclusively associated with the romulans up until that point, to the klingons... the creators themselves citing that one as a mistake. a mistake that was then repeated by the writers of star trek 2009.
star trek is a pretty internally consistent franchise and a lot of things are never explicitly mentioned, but baked into the fictional history. the bird of prey thing is an old hangup, but the universe is a little less pristine, a little muddier when it doesn't always line up with either what has come before on screen or our expectations off screen.
but it also might be an age thing. i grew up thinking of the bird of prey one way, the creators took it in another direction. i'm sure i'm not alone in being a little weirded out by it simply because of that.
