THE ORVILLE: S1, E7: "MAJORITY RULE"

[Trekker4747]

I liked this episode quite a bit. Although I have to say - with their 24th century tech, why not just hack the voting system directly? Hell, the android should have been capable of that by himself.

25th Century Tech.

They probably could do it, but this is a case where the story or social point the episode was trying to make was more important, the show doing old-school TOS-Trek like societal allegories. The whole planet was basically like the Internet so it more feeds the point on swaying opinions by simply giving them simple information that appeals to them, something frivolous turned them against John? Well more frivolous things can get them on his side and you can thrown in a point about how people on the Internet never fact-check anything, they just see a post about something and assume it true.

 

[Mudd]

Of course in some alternative mirror universe out there it is perfectly acceptable to enjoy both series and even Star Wars, DC and Marvel movies each on their own merits.

In this universe it's acceptable to like or dislike anything on its merits.

"You can like both!" misses the point - you don't have to like something you don't think is any good just to please people. I don't think STD is good.

 

[shivkala]

A good old Picard speech could have fixed this: "Yes, we could hack their entire system and tilt the vote in favor of John. Perhaps that would alleviate the situation for us, yes, but who are we to judge this planet, this society? We who struggle with common decency. We, who have spouses who cheat with blue aliens. We who play practical jokes on each other that involve amputation. We, who grind on statues of beloved heroes. Are we to sit in judgment of another society and completely disregard a system that, though heinous to us, seems to work for them? Is correction any worse than the death penalty we used to employ? No, changing the vote...that's cheating. If we're going to stay true to who we are, we must not go down that path. Instead, let's use the inherent flaws in the system. We'll manipulate things to make John more likable, I'm willing to go that far. But to do more is to be the very people we are sitting in judgment of. To do so would be to hit a giant down vote for their entire planet. We must be better than that. Mr. Isaac, begin the data manipulation."

 

[Ovation]

A good old Picard speech could have fixed this: "Yes, we could hack their entire system and tilt the vote in favor of John. Perhaps that would alleviate the situation for us, yes, but who are we to judge this planet, this society? We who struggle with common decency. We, who have spouses who cheat with blue aliens. We who play practical jokes on each other that involve amputation. We, who grind on statues of beloved heroes. Are we to sit in judgment of another society and completely disregard a system that, though heinous to us, seems to work for them? Is correction any worse than the death penalty we used to employ? No, changing the vote...that's cheating. If we're going to stay true to who we are, we must not go down that path. Instead, let's use the inherent flaws in the system. We'll manipulate things to make John more likable, I'm willing to go that far. But to do more is to be the very people we are sitting in judgment of. To do so would be to hit a giant down vote for their entire planet. We must be better than that. Mr. Isaac, begin the data manipulation."

Oh dear lord, no!

 

[Mudd]

I assume that was offered as parody. The last thing any TV show needs is more of that 1980s Trek pomposity.

As to the handling of this stuff in The Orville, I enjoyed Mercer's conversation with the admiral about how to handle getting John out. Because of Roddenberry's nonsense edicts the Prime Directive was always treated as holy writ and a settled condition of Starfleet's conduct. No one could have a sensible discussion about a given situation. Instead, at best we got gibberish like the conference room scenes in "Pen Pals."

 

[Scout101]

Orville is starting to find a niche. Liking the tone it's taken, where it's Star Trek but not taken too seriously. Jokes toned down a little, but they're still having fun. And then doing the allegory stories that Trek made its bones off of. Keep it up!

Also super depressing how close to home this week's episode hit. We suck as a culture, and may need to destroy Facebook and Twitter; they're ruining us.

 

[Mudd]

Orville is starting to find a niche. Liking the tone it's taken, where it's Star Trek but not taken too seriously. Jokes toned down a little, but they're still having fun. And then doing the allegory stories that Trek made its bones off of. Keep it up!

Also super depressing how close to home this week's episode hit. We suck as a culture, and may need to destroy Facebook and Twitter; they're ruining us.

I clicked "Like" on this - Ironically Or Not: You Decide.

 

[fireproof78]

Also super depressing how close to home this week's episode hit. We suck as a culture, and may need to destroy Facebook and Twitter; they're ruining us.

This isn't news

 

[Sean_McCormick]

STD is just such a fucking lame show.

And i prefer tea over coffee.

 

[Mudd]

And i prefer tea over coffee.

I don't doubt it.

 

[ChasFink]

...(This does not apply to symbols with actual meanings rooted in hate and bigotry like the Nazi Swastika and Confederate Battle Flag)..

I assume by Nazi Swastika you mean black on a white circle surrounded by red. The actual swastika shape the Nazis used has a long history predating the Nazis in many cultures, and it's still used in many eastern cultures. Hitler & co. went and dragged the symbol through the mud so badly that it will likely never be used in western society again except as a Nazi symbol, but occasional misunderstandings do occur when westerners encounter non-Nazi swastikas.

I thought it might be an allusion to cultural appropriation.

Yep. He even said she was “literally pissing all over” his culture.

Another amazing example of Hodgkins's law of parallel planet development: the misuse of the word "literally".

 

[The Wormhole]

Another amazing example of Hodgkins's law of parallel planet development: the misuse of the word "literally".

The dictionary officially accepts as one of its definitions of "literally" one that makes it a figurative term. So Literally now literally means figuratively.

 

[Nakita Akita]

Another aspect of the world building here is that we led at first to believe this planet has one culture. It is revealed through Alara's mishap that there are many other cultures on this planet and there is a suggestion that this world might have more than one nation.




.

That's funny, I saw it as " everything hurts someone's little feelings, so YOU need to behave differently"

 

[Nakita Akita]

Just watch this episode for that answer. The holo emitter vulnerability is technology that this culture obviously doesn't have.

I think the real answer is that the way it was done is needed for plot in both instances. I just found it amusing.

Also interesting, their brain scrambler worked exactly as intended on an alien brain they've never encountered before.

You are assuming that if worked correctly.
Possibly not.

 

[Nakita Akita]

So, I guess Halston Sage and Peter Macon look that way, naturally. And the spots on the aliens in "If the Stars Should Appear" are also natural, as well as all of the Klingons, I mean Krill. And what Pria and the crew did to get through that asteroid field, that was totally understandable and holds up scientifically.

Besides, we all know that every single episode of Star Trek is just rubber forehead aliens and technobabble...

This was surface level. Fun for ~45 minutes, but that's it. It has nothing that makes me want to re-watch it.
Whether it ripped Black Mirror off is irrelevant. What's relevant is that other shows have done this theme and have done it better. I commented earlier about wanting Kelly to down vote the PR guy. A scene where she confesses that she wanted to at the end of the episode and talked about how easy it is to get sucked into their way of life would have added so much to the show and her character, personally. This show is missing the codas that TOS had where McCoy and Spock would debate and Kirk would summarize. Actually, the more I think about it, the more a scene like that would have been great. Especially if Kelly said something about how if she could have down voted Ed, then maybe he would have figured out what was wrong before she cheated on him. Something to show the events affected the characters. Or even John going to tease Alara about her rotating boyfriends and stopping himself. Something to make the characters have more depth.

Because, ultimately, the characters are all still so bland. With his antics here, John is just another version of Gordon. They could have easily substituted Gordon for John without really changing anything, except his name. Seven episodes in and I can't remember most of their names. Hell, I even forget Ed's name. Bortus, Alara (when I can spelling correctly), and Isaac are the only ones I can remember without looking up.

I do get a slight nostalgic twinge when watching this show. Again, it's a not such a bad way to shut off my brain and get some enjoyment for the ~45. But, with each episode, I'm reminded of the things that drove me away from Trek in the late 90's. It wasn't the prosthetic make-up or the technobabble. It was the shallow plots and the fact that, except for a plot thread here or there, nothing that happened to the characters mattered.

Babylon 5 opened my eyes to this. Each episode was a building block and things that happened to a character in one episode changed that character on a deep level. It wasn't just a throwback comment to refer to getting a new leg, it was a change in personality. They were flawed and their flaws made them more human (even the aliens). I knew each character almost on an intimate level and felt for them. If John was corrected, I would have shrugged my shoulders and wondered if, given the very little characterization we've got for him (i.e. he likes to drink soda on the bridge), would I even have noticed.

For now, I'll enjoy it for what it is. But, if this is all we're going to get, I'm not sure I'll make it for the full season without it piling up on my DVR and me thinking, "Gee, I forgot I had all of these taped."

Well, there hasn't been that many episodes yet. Probably a lot of the other Trek series sucked eggs big time at first too.

 

[BillJ]

Anyone having an issue with someone acting dumb on foreign soil, just needs to look up the tragic story of Otto Warmbier. By all accounts, a smart person who made a mistake (supposedly).

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40308028

 

[JasonJ]

Anyone having an issue with someone acting dumb on foreign soil, just needs to look up the tragic story of Otto Warmbier. By all accounts, a smart person who made a mistake (supposedly).

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40308028

Which is what made this episode so relevant and gave that much more impact. If you weren't aware that things like this actually happen/happened, I can see how someone might think that the premise is stupid... ask Otto's parents if they think it's stupid. Context is for kings, as they say.

 

[JD]

I don't mean to be rude about what happened to Warmbier, but I still still don't understand why the hell an average American would choose to take of trip to North Korea of all places. At this point it is probably one of the absolute worst places an American could go. I can at least see why a reporter like Lisa Ling would choose to go there and expose what is happening, but not someone like him.

If someone could shop the Rebellion symbol out for the Union symbol, this would work:

Have we seen the Union symbol?

I can agree that Lamar's reaction after being saved from the "correction" did seem a bit out of place, you'd think they guy would need a clean pair of underwear (to borrow a term from Malloy) since he was literally seconds away from being lobotomized, you'd think leaving the room he'd have a touch of tact and humility to him. So that's a gripe I can give it, it would've been interesting to see how he reacted to everything and maybe thought to be less impulsive and obvious/crass with his humor.

It seemed perfectly in character, and understandable to me.

 

[BillJ]

Have we seen the Union symbol?

Yes. It is the symbol on the command uniforms the crew wear.

 

[Trekker4747]

Yes. It is the symbol on the command uniforms the crew wear.

I think that's just the symbol for the "starfleet" and not the union itself.