Such a weird helmet
The blue helmet with the two antenna made me think of the Andorians. Maybe Mudd stole the helmet and space suit from them?
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x07 - "Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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The blue helmet with the two antenna made me think of the Andorians. Maybe Mudd stole the helmet and space suit from them?
I feel sad for some people. Somehow compelled to watch series that they hate. And then tripped up by a simple kiss in the plot. Makes you wonder what is missing . . . sad.
Agreed. I suspect parties will be very similar in the future too!
My review of Episode 7#
So, apparently beer pong survives into the 23rd century. That and apparently classical music includes Wyclef Jean's 1997 "We Trying to Stay Alive" which I found less believable. The premise for "Magic to make the Sanest man go mad" (which is among the worst Star Trek titles since "The Butcher's Knife Cares Not for the Lamb's Cry" and "For the World Is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky") is Harry Mudd has successfully seized control over the Discovery and trapped it in a thirty minute time loop.
The obvious inspirations for this episode include Bill Murray's black comedy Groundhog Day and Star Trek's Cause and Effect. Cause and Effect worked wonderfully because there was a sense of mystery and the fact we didn't know how any of the characters would get out of this. Here, we have the character of Stamets remember each of the iterations, which means it's really just a matter of him being competent enough to defeat a somewhat blundering con man. The fact it takes a ridiculous amount of effort for Stamets and the rest of the crew to defeat Mudd doesn't speak well to their talents. Honestly, I think Mudd showed himself planning better than Khan Singh did in "Space Seed" and that's a bit hard to swallow.
I think part of the issue I had with this episode is the tone was all wrong. Mudd is a vicious killer in this episode, constantly resetting time to murder Captain Lorca over and over again. I don't have a problem with this behavior as the idea Mudd is dangerous despite his roguish personality isn't a problem for me. It's just the ending, where Mudd is forced to be returned to his pretty yet (apparently--she seems entirely likable in her brief appearance) obnoxious wife is a poor substitute for jailtail after an act of terrorism. Also, it does clash with Mudd's latter continuity appearances as you'd think he'd be listed in the Starfleet Most Wanted Database.
There's also the fact much of the episode is devoted to Michael Burnham's love life. Michael is revealed to have never been in love, which is treated as some great shame but I'm not sure she's even thirty yet. Also, of course she hasn't. Michael was raised on Vulcan and then put into Starfleet as an adult. Vulcans only mate once every seven years, practice arranged marriages, and she was someone who didn't have the typical college experience. The treatment that it's some great personal shame for her didn't fit with what we know of her.
I'm also a little put off by the fact there's apparently a wild fraternity party going onboard the Discovery. I'm fully prepared to believe it happens in Starfleet but isn't this the middle of wartime? Aren't these people the kind who go on deck? THAT BETTER BE SYNTHEHOL BEING SERVED! I feel like the show briefly merged with The Orville where Starfleet has even less regulations than normal. Tilly being the kind of wild party girl is also a bit iffy given the fact she's uncomfortable switching beds. Then again, I've met autistic girls who are less like Sheldon and more, "You want to have sex?" after five minutes of cat stories.
Despite this, I'm not too harsh on it because the Discovery kind of illustrates how the nature of the Star Trek nerd has changed over the course of fifty years. Nerds are now incredibly rich and popular people thanks to buying their own kingdom in Silicon Valley. The sciences aren't quite the refuge of the socially unsuitable they used to be and thank the Quantum Overgod for that. Even so, I think those who fans who thought of the future as a place of cellos and three-dimensional chess are going to be annoyed by this scene. Still, as much as I remember fraternity parties being pretty awful if you were blind drunk, I think I prefer them to the idea we'll spend our time in holodecks full of Irish stereotypes like on Voyager.
Weirdly, I can't help but be more interested in Mudd's father in law than I am in any of the actual events on the ship. There's an arms dealer that has a starship as large as the Discovery? Who is selling arms too? Why is the Federation allowing this? Why did he not have Mudd transported out into deep space given what a repulsive troll he is? Is that the fashion of the 23rd century? Because he and his daughter were rocking the Space Sixties future clothes. I also feel bad for Stella as, again, she seems a perfectly sweet young girl married to a man we discovered is a charming monster.
In conclusion, this is probably my least favorite of the Discovery episodes so far. There's some great moments and some less than great moments. This would be fine if not for the fact Star Trek: Discovery feels like the kind of show which could have twice as many episodes with half the budget. There's a lot of movie-esque level special effects like dealing with a "space whale" that really didn't need to be included and the show could easily be rewritten to be 26 episodes instead of 13 with more talking versus explosions.
6/10
So, apparently beer pong survives into the 23rd century. That and apparently classical music includes Wyclef Jean's 1997 "We Trying to Stay Alive" which I found less believable. The premise for "Magic to make the Sanest man go mad" (which is among the worst Star Trek titles since "The Butcher's Knife Cares Not for the Lamb's Cry" and "For the World Is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky") is Harry Mudd has successfully seized control over the Discovery and trapped it in a thirty minute time loop.
The obvious inspirations for this episode include Bill Murray's black comedy Groundhog Day and Star Trek's Cause and Effect. Cause and Effect worked wonderfully because there was a sense of mystery and the fact we didn't know how any of the characters would get out of this. Here, we have the character of Stamets remember each of the iterations, which means it's really just a matter of him being competent enough to defeat a somewhat blundering con man. The fact it takes a ridiculous amount of effort for Stamets and the rest of the crew to defeat Mudd doesn't speak well to their talents. Honestly, I think Mudd showed himself planning better than Khan Singh did in "Space Seed" and that's a bit hard to swallow.
I think part of the issue I had with this episode is the tone was all wrong. Mudd is a vicious killer in this episode, constantly resetting time to murder Captain Lorca over and over again. I don't have a problem with this behavior as the idea Mudd is dangerous despite his roguish personality isn't a problem for me. It's just the ending, where Mudd is forced to be returned to his pretty yet (apparently--she seems entirely likable in her brief appearance) obnoxious wife is a poor substitute for jailtail after an act of terrorism. Also, it does clash with Mudd's latter continuity appearances as you'd think he'd be listed in the Starfleet Most Wanted Database.
There's also the fact much of the episode is devoted to Michael Burnham's love life. Michael is revealed to have never been in love, which is treated as some great shame but I'm not sure she's even thirty yet. Also, of course she hasn't. Michael was raised on Vulcan and then put into Starfleet as an adult. Vulcans only mate once every seven years, practice arranged marriages, and she was someone who didn't have the typical college experience. The treatment that it's some great personal shame for her didn't fit with what we know of her.
I'm also a little put off by the fact there's apparently a wild fraternity party going onboard the Discovery. I'm fully prepared to believe it happens in Starfleet but isn't this the middle of wartime? Aren't these people the kind who go on deck? THAT BETTER BE SYNTHEHOL BEING SERVED! I feel like the show briefly merged with The Orville where Starfleet has even less regulations than normal. Tilly being the kind of wild party girl is also a bit iffy given the fact she's uncomfortable switching beds. Then again, I've met autistic girls who are less like Sheldon and more, "You want to have sex?" after five minutes of cat stories.
Despite this, I'm not too harsh on it because the Discovery kind of illustrates how the nature of the Star Trek nerd has changed over the course of fifty years. Nerds are now incredibly rich and popular people thanks to buying their own kingdom in Silicon Valley. The sciences aren't quite the refuge of the socially unsuitable they used to be and thank the Quantum Overgod for that. Even so, I think those who fans who thought of the future as a place of cellos and three-dimensional chess are going to be annoyed by this scene. Still, as much as I remember fraternity parties being pretty awful if you were blind drunk, I think I prefer them to the idea we'll spend our time in holodecks full of Irish stereotypes like on Voyager.
Weirdly, I can't help but be more interested in Mudd's father in law than I am in any of the actual events on the ship. There's an arms dealer that has a starship as large as the Discovery? Who is selling arms too? Why is the Federation allowing this? Why did he not have Mudd transported out into deep space given what a repulsive troll he is? Is that the fashion of the 23rd century? Because he and his daughter were rocking the Space Sixties future clothes. I also feel bad for Stella as, again, she seems a perfectly sweet young girl married to a man we discovered is a charming monster.
In conclusion, this is probably my least favorite of the Discovery episodes so far. There's some great moments and some less than great moments. This would be fine if not for the fact Star Trek: Discovery feels like the kind of show which could have twice as many episodes with half the budget. There's a lot of movie-esque level special effects like dealing with a "space whale" that really didn't need to be included and the show could easily be rewritten to be 26 episodes instead of 13 with more talking versus explosions.
6/10
According to After Trek:
The helmet's shape was an homage to Thelev in "Journey to Babel", who was disguised as an Andorian to sabotage the Enterprise.
she was talking about allergies.
I don't think anyone is yelling. They do have the right to both dislike the show and to compulsively watch each and every new episode in excruciating detail. Personally, I think it is sad and I feel sympathy for them. That can't be a great life.
You're probably right--that would've been nice. I think they had a choice to make time-wise. Show us how Mudd got control of the computer or show us how Mudd killed Lorca over and over. I'm guessing they went with Lorca because it was more fun *and* it showed how there'd been many loops that we didn't see.
You pronounce it Disc, like they did in Episode 3.
Thinking of the tech that Mudd used to create time loops and how he used it to learn and adapt, I am thinking that would be great tech for the Borg to get. It would enhance their ability to adapt even more.
I'm annoyed the Federation is winning the war.
Also the 10,000 dead versus 100,000 or 200,000.
Also the 10,000 dead versus 100,000 or 200,000.
Mary Wiseman has stated that she did not intentionally play the character of Tilly as being on the Autism Spectrum, but if people want to view the character from that angle, it is their prerogative.
She was probably drinking. Couple other users in here have said they do the exact same thing, shy but active at parties/drinking.
Maybe it is an andorian space suit.Such a weird helmet
Her special needs were medical, she explains it in the same scene it comes up.
Always glad to know when I'm wrong.
I really dig the Andorian helmet.
Gave the episode a 9. It's nice to see the time-loop trope from the perspective of the characters who aren't aware of it.
Really dug the Baron's ship at the end. Had a very TOS feel to it.
Also really appreciated the standard hand-phaser vaporize effect and how it was distinguished from the Klingon disruptor and that other gun Mudd used on Lorca (which was very disturbing).
It occurred to me watching this episode progress that despite, not knowing each other terribly well, this crew seems to trust each other pretty easily when it comes to accepting super implausible shifts in the fabric of reality. Between that and their apparently unwavering devotion to an endangered species act, this felt very Star Trek.
Not sure what's more sad, you getting worked up about people commenting about the show on a messaging board about this show or people expressing their objective criticisms of it.
I don't want to speak for Mr Awe, but I personally have no problem with objective criticisms. It's the ones who nitpick things, then are proven wrong, but continue to nitpick. There are also the ones who have the same complaints every episode about it not being Star Trek (or the vision of Star Trek they have in their mind). It's not going to change.
If Burnham is on a journey, there's no indication that a destination has been set for her heroic quest.
What drives this woman?
Nothing.
Which is why she’s a poorly written character in a mediocrely written show, that constantly has to reach into the past and deliver fan service, rather than move the franchise forward.
Michael Burnham is left to react to stuff all the time, rather than being a believable, independent character.
It’s also for that reason the Michael Burnham in episode A seems completely different from Michael Burnham in episode B.
I liked this episode a lot more when it was called "Cause and effect" and was on TNG...
But then again: If your going to steal from yourself, you might as well steal from your best. Would have been awkward to see another re-do of "Naked time"(TOS)/"Naked now"(TNG)/"something something singularity"(ENT)...
Plot
Time-loop and destruction/death of everyone must be stopped. But "Cause and effect" was a lot more effective as astory, since the time-loop itself was the focus. THIS episode was centered around a very by-the-numbers villain story, where the villain took over the ship with a gimmick (in this case the time-loop) and had to be stopped.
This episode had one glaring, horrible weakness: Harry Mudd. I didn't believe in him as a serious villain for one second. The lighthearted resolution of the story was much more akin to the tone I expect from a "Mudd"-story. Having him run around the ship beforehand, murdering everyone on his way by shooting them or worse was totally over the top and unbelievable.
The "Burnham needs to seduce Tyler"-subplot was nicely executed, and the character work was fine. But it felt forced upon this episode, Realistically Stamets should have been able to gain all this information from Tyler himself after a few cycles of correct "predictions" and buzz words.
The other biggest flaw of the episode was the resolution. There was nothing really clever about it. Just "let the clock run out" and overpower him, as easily as the klingon prison guards were overpowered. There should have been something more imaginative.
I think the episode would have gained a lot if it were told from Stamets perspective: Not knowing how many cycles he has left until the bad guy wins would have been a powerful backdrop. And how to undermine Mudd without revealing himself to be "in-the-loop". Both were big missed opportunities.
Characters
The Burnham-Tyler romance took center stage. Which, again, was weird, because this rather lighthearted subplot (which IMO would have fitted a "Harry Mudd"-story fine) was at total odds with the grim mass murder and torture of the whole scenario.
That being said, I think the romance itself was handeled fine. Michael Burnham secret is that she never "loved" somebody. I belive that - insofar as that there surely have been one or two Vulcans in her life she probably fancied in her teens - but that she is totally overwhelmed by the feeling of somebody loving her back in a romantic sense.
Ash Tyler (Voq) is build up as a waaay too perfect boyfriend. I have a harder and harder time to imagine how a klingon spy would ever be able to be such a perfect human being. This might be more of a case of "sleeper Cylon agent" (from BSG), that maybe Voq was "melted" with a real human being, who doesn't even know about his heritage at this point? In this episode "Voq" would have helped Mudd to turn over the ship to the klingons. I don't know, just speculation at this point, but I'm interested to find out what the creators have planned in the long run.
Stamets was fine this week. I miss his snarky side a bit. And he totally almost doomed everyone by revealing the secret to Mudd without any real reason. This was clearly a symptom of "character acting to advance the plot" instead of "plot moving to advance character".
Lorca's little "I don't give a damn" about space creatures was awesome, and every line and action of his this episode was in character. Saru got a bit of the short stick this week again, but it looks like the next episode will focus on him.
Harry Mudd running & shooting around this ship was the real problem. It just didn't fit the character. Maybe this episode would have worked with someone else as a villain better, or at least someone commanding a small army and not working completely rogue.
Nitpicks:
Final Verdict
A remarkably unremarkable episode, that could have easily been a filler in DS9/VOY/ENT as well. In fact, I think a little less self-serious environment might have actually worked in it's favour a little.
What I would have preferred:
Copying "Cause and effect" up to even the main ship exploding at the end of each cycle was IMO a mistake. I think it would have been more interesting (and new!) if the cycle simply started everytime Mudd was defeated/overwhelmed. And that the main crew now has to con the con-man, in making him believe he HAS won, and over-power him without force to avoid the cycle re-starting.
But then again: If your going to steal from yourself, you might as well steal from your best. Would have been awkward to see another re-do of "Naked time"(TOS)/"Naked now"(TNG)/"something something singularity"(ENT)...
Plot
Time-loop and destruction/death of everyone must be stopped. But "Cause and effect" was a lot more effective as astory, since the time-loop itself was the focus. THIS episode was centered around a very by-the-numbers villain story, where the villain took over the ship with a gimmick (in this case the time-loop) and had to be stopped.
This episode had one glaring, horrible weakness: Harry Mudd. I didn't believe in him as a serious villain for one second. The lighthearted resolution of the story was much more akin to the tone I expect from a "Mudd"-story. Having him run around the ship beforehand, murdering everyone on his way by shooting them or worse was totally over the top and unbelievable.
The "Burnham needs to seduce Tyler"-subplot was nicely executed, and the character work was fine. But it felt forced upon this episode, Realistically Stamets should have been able to gain all this information from Tyler himself after a few cycles of correct "predictions" and buzz words.
The other biggest flaw of the episode was the resolution. There was nothing really clever about it. Just "let the clock run out" and overpower him, as easily as the klingon prison guards were overpowered. There should have been something more imaginative.
I think the episode would have gained a lot if it were told from Stamets perspective: Not knowing how many cycles he has left until the bad guy wins would have been a powerful backdrop. And how to undermine Mudd without revealing himself to be "in-the-loop". Both were big missed opportunities.
Characters
The Burnham-Tyler romance took center stage. Which, again, was weird, because this rather lighthearted subplot (which IMO would have fitted a "Harry Mudd"-story fine) was at total odds with the grim mass murder and torture of the whole scenario.
That being said, I think the romance itself was handeled fine. Michael Burnham secret is that she never "loved" somebody. I belive that - insofar as that there surely have been one or two Vulcans in her life she probably fancied in her teens - but that she is totally overwhelmed by the feeling of somebody loving her back in a romantic sense.
Ash Tyler (Voq) is build up as a waaay too perfect boyfriend. I have a harder and harder time to imagine how a klingon spy would ever be able to be such a perfect human being. This might be more of a case of "sleeper Cylon agent" (from BSG), that maybe Voq was "melted" with a real human being, who doesn't even know about his heritage at this point? In this episode "Voq" would have helped Mudd to turn over the ship to the klingons. I don't know, just speculation at this point, but I'm interested to find out what the creators have planned in the long run.
Stamets was fine this week. I miss his snarky side a bit. And he totally almost doomed everyone by revealing the secret to Mudd without any real reason. This was clearly a symptom of "character acting to advance the plot" instead of "plot moving to advance character".
Lorca's little "I don't give a damn" about space creatures was awesome, and every line and action of his this episode was in character. Saru got a bit of the short stick this week again, but it looks like the next episode will focus on him.
Harry Mudd running & shooting around this ship was the real problem. It just didn't fit the character. Maybe this episode would have worked with someone else as a villain better, or at least someone commanding a small army and not working completely rogue.
Nitpicks:
- The"Captain's log" (well, "personal" log) is back!
- There have been 10.000 casualties in the war. Not sure if only Starfleet officers, or attacked colonies included. I think we need some information about the total numbers of "ship's lost" or "battles fought" to gain more information about the war.
- The Federation is "winning" the war thanks to the Dsicovery - although we see very few battles, not even as short flashbacks
- There's a dude in a wheelchair at the party. Apparently, he has something not curable in the future. He was from the science division, apparently Starfleet - if he's good enough - probably doesn't care that he doesn't meet the physical fitness required for service on a starship.
- There's a lot of making-out on the party going on! Which is nice for them. But really, this party did absolutely not felt like a wartime party at the front lines. This was a lot more "drunk college kids" after a science project. Which is fine for Trek. But not fine with regards to the larger war-arc in the background going on.
- I like the portrayal of how Starfleet handels "endangered species". A more real-world-like portrayal, and not some "Prime Directive"-bullshit. But then again: This is a warship, in a crucial position in the middle of a hot war. Don't they have some exception approval to not have to divert their attention for such little inconviniances?
- The "Time Crystal" was one of the stupidiest addition to the Trek lore since, well, space shrooms. So, apparently, single individuals now can suddenly have the ability to travel through time, everyone and their Vulcan grandmother knows this possibility exists, but nobody acts arond it or researches for counter-measures?
- Also: : Burnham just speculates about "4-dimensional beings" helping Mdd as if it were nothing unusual, but doesn't belive Stamets about a "time-loop"?
- Stella's and her Dad's ship was nice! Those two (and the resolution of the episode) fit much better in the TOS-era than Mudd's brutal revenge-arce preceeding it
Final Verdict
A remarkably unremarkable episode, that could have easily been a filler in DS9/VOY/ENT as well. In fact, I think a little less self-serious environment might have actually worked in it's favour a little.
What I would have preferred:
Copying "Cause and effect" up to even the main ship exploding at the end of each cycle was IMO a mistake. I think it would have been more interesting (and new!) if the cycle simply started everytime Mudd was defeated/overwhelmed. And that the main crew now has to con the con-man, in making him believe he HAS won, and over-power him without force to avoid the cycle re-starting.
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