You're forgetting "awkward sex" and "trinkets."
Let's talk about the elephant in the room, this series violates Roddenberry's vision big time
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You're forgetting "awkward sex" and "trinkets."
I maintain "Dear Doctor" was deliberately altered by Starfleet to talk about the Prime Directive because they were embarrassed they just gave the cure and left with no fuss.
I don't know which poster mentioned, "Roddenberry was often accused of not understanding money when he envisioned his utopian society and this is not the case since he understood money very well. Look at the lyrics to the Original Series theme."
Yeah, Archer is one of the most bigoted lead characters in the entire franchise at the start of the series. He takes quite a while to warm to T'Pol being a true equal in Enterprise's crew roster and Trip also harbors a lot of resentment for the Vulcans early in the series. A lot of that is understandable and we get more in-depth explanation of the origins of their attitudes in "First Flight," but bigotry is still bigotry no matter how otherwise noble and upstanding a character may be.
In my head, I think I would have written Enterprise as them ONLY knowing the Vulcans and then gradually meeting new races one by one from Klingons to Ferengi to whatnot. If I had to use the Time War, I would have used it as a justification for any changes to canon like meeting races early or seeing Romulans.
IDK about that Sisko seemed to really hate English-Frenchman in the DS9 pilot.
Yeah, but that's a Brit pretending to be a Frenchman. Can you blame him?
I recently watched the in conversation video with Berman and Braga and kind of sympathize with them being pigeon held by UPN. Seemed they really wanted to dive deep into where humanity was before the Federation and the struggles that took place before becoming what they were in TOS and TNG, but UPN just wanted more of the same formula Voyager did. Braga feeling the show only found its voice in the third and fourth season, but by that point UPN didn't care anymore because of the lackluster ratings showing the writing on the wall.
It is too bad, because that fourth season did feel like an actual prequel, whereas the first two seasons might as well have been extended seasons of Voyager.
It is too bad, because that fourth season did feel like an actual prequel, whereas the first two seasons might as well have been extended seasons of Voyager.
Problem with Archer's grudge is that he was only supposed to have that in the pilot. His whole arc in that episode is learning to get over his rigid outview and embrace T'Pol's help. That's what the ending was all about. But then the next episodes immediately press the reset button and it's more of "you God damn Vulcans" spiel. It would be like if DS9's second episode suddenly had Sisko not having confronted the loss of Jennifer.
Although in real life Archer wouldn't get over his prejudices and negative beliefs about Vulcans in just the space of one mission. He spent practically his entire life being told or otherwise believing that Vulcans kept his father from reaching his goal of seeing a Warp 5 engine fly and that's a good three or four decades of inculcated cynicism and bigotry. It may have been much neater and cleaner for Archer to put his bigotry to rest after the end of the premiere episode but it's more realistic to see him struggle with those feelings in ensuing storylines.
It just feels more believable for him to gradually overcome his preconceived notions rather than have the events of one or two episodes turn him into a paragon of tolerance.
It just feels more believable for him to gradually overcome his preconceived notions rather than have the events of one or two episodes turn him into a paragon of tolerance.
It warps the narrative in places too like when he sides with the Andorians, we have to wonder, "Is it because he's offended by the Vulcan's duplicity" or "I HATE DEM DAMN VULCANS"
The problem is we don't really see consequences of his change of heart, he's exactly back where he started in the premiere. It would be nice to see him taking those steps towards learning to tolerate T'Pol, but he still goes on as if those experiences he had in "Broken Script", I mean, as if those experiences he had in "Broken Bow" never happened.
"Tolerance" doesn't mean what people think it means. It doesn't mean *to wholeheartedly accept", but, rather, "to (grudgingly) put up with". So as far as that goes, Archer was tolerating T'Pol from the very beginning.
There is a very very big gap between reading something at the academy and having experience in it.
Say between the romlan war and the Klingon war of hundred years there have only been a few dozen skirmishes involving a few dozen ships out of hundred and hundreds of ships. Les than 10% of startfleet would have any sort of combat experience.
Perfection, unfortunately, is BORING. And it’s what drove Trek into the ground. Watching perfect beings make perfect decisions and act perfectly is as dull as all hell
Maybe two different people with, you know, different ideas and experiences and stuff? Like real people?
Ben Sisko in “The Pale Moonlight”. Noble people losing their values during wartime. Silent Leges, anyone?
were seeing far more realistic behavior in a showcase of the federation in the middle of a large scale and brutal war.
"Gene's vision" aside... Which hey... I love the idea. In the future all the children will know how to read, and there will be no greed. Who the Hell doesn't like the idea of that?
I don't think that's really the issue here. My big gripe with Discovery, and thankfully it has been lessened with each episode, is that we're once again on the war path. We did this for several seasons of DS9, and we did this for a whole season of Enterprise, and never really left the dark shadow that put on the series.
I really want to see Star Trek rise back above the murk and darkness. Why? Well, I love when an actor like Patrick Stewart can stand in front of a crowd and tell the audience that a police officer wrote him, and told him, that TNG basically saved his life because it gave him hope every night. I like hearing about all the brilliant people, inventors of our current world, who watched TOS and were inspired by it's creativity and it's positivity so much that they wanted to make it a reality.
The heart of Discovery is right, it's just being shrouded by layers of darkness. Hell, I actually love the shadows around Lorca, and i'm rooting for him to find his redemption.
I just want the show to get brighter, and find the more uplifting voice that I know it has. I want the war with the Klingons to end sooner rather than later. I want Discovery to become a strongly character focused show where we start peeling away the layers of the onion that are the human condition, to help things heal.
I don't want to tune into Star Trek and be reminded that the world sucks. Even as Enterprise got better in season 3, that was still a big issue. 9/11 was heavy in a lot of peoples minds, mine included, and all I could think about was just how depressing it all was. Even as Archer and company fought to stop the badguys... All I could think about was all the people who had really died for real, and how many more were dying in the very real battles being fought halfway around the world.
I don't think that's really the issue here. My big gripe with Discovery, and thankfully it has been lessened with each episode, is that we're once again on the war path. We did this for several seasons of DS9, and we did this for a whole season of Enterprise, and never really left the dark shadow that put on the series.
I really want to see Star Trek rise back above the murk and darkness. Why? Well, I love when an actor like Patrick Stewart can stand in front of a crowd and tell the audience that a police officer wrote him, and told him, that TNG basically saved his life because it gave him hope every night. I like hearing about all the brilliant people, inventors of our current world, who watched TOS and were inspired by it's creativity and it's positivity so much that they wanted to make it a reality.
The heart of Discovery is right, it's just being shrouded by layers of darkness. Hell, I actually love the shadows around Lorca, and i'm rooting for him to find his redemption.
I just want the show to get brighter, and find the more uplifting voice that I know it has. I want the war with the Klingons to end sooner rather than later. I want Discovery to become a strongly character focused show where we start peeling away the layers of the onion that are the human condition, to help things heal.
I don't want to tune into Star Trek and be reminded that the world sucks. Even as Enterprise got better in season 3, that was still a big issue. 9/11 was heavy in a lot of peoples minds, mine included, and all I could think about was just how depressing it all was. Even as Archer and company fought to stop the badguys... All I could think about was all the people who had really died for real, and how many more were dying in the very real battles being fought halfway around the world.
