Spoilers Discovery and the Novelverse - TV show discussion thread
- Thread starter F. King Daniel
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Quick question:
Was just rewatching the latest episode, and it struck me: is this the very first time Robert April's name has actually appeared onscreen in ANY canonical, post-TAS production? I mean, even other captains pop up in namechecks from time to time in the 24th Century (the "Christopher Pike Medal of Valor," etc.), but have there ever been any secondhand references to April before now, even minor ones?
Was double-checking both Memory Alpha and Beta too, but absolutely nothing onscreen prior to this week's DSC episode.
Was just rewatching the latest episode, and it struck me: is this the very first time Robert April's name has actually appeared onscreen in ANY canonical, post-TAS production? I mean, even other captains pop up in namechecks from time to time in the 24th Century (the "Christopher Pike Medal of Valor," etc.), but have there ever been any secondhand references to April before now, even minor ones?
Was double-checking both Memory Alpha and Beta too, but absolutely nothing onscreen prior to this week's DSC episode.
Nope -- this is the first time he's ever been canonically mentioned outside of "The Counter-Clock Incident."
I'm really excited to see if things like the mycelial network and/or the tardigrades might make their way into 24th century treklit at any point, although obviously the fact that spore drive technology isn't a thing in TOS or any point after and episode five's release of Ripper makes us assume that the technology never advances beyond the testing phase. That is the only incredibly minor gripe I have with this series, is that many of the intriguing possibilities contained therein will ultimately crash and burn or be proved untenable. That was a similar situation I found myself in at the end of the Vanguard series--I loved it, but it was sad that so much was covered up and so many characters were removed from the larger stage of Starfleet events. I suppose though that obviously the Shedai metagenome reappeared in the Typhon Pact series and beyond, so I could see elements from Discovery make similar sly cameos. All in all, the new canon revelations of Discovery and the recently acquired rights to utilize aspects of the Kelvin Timeline makes me excited for future Trek-Lit.
Also, really surprised that Garth of Izar didn't make the cut on that list, considering that he was highly regarded pretty much from the moment he left Starfleet Academy. Unless maybe the Antos IV incident has already taken place by the timeframe of Discovery, and even with all his decorations, he's now retroactively considered too "controversial" a figure to make the same all-timers roster as Archer, April, Pike, Decker, etc.?
I suppose attempted genocide might make that kinda politically-impractical.
(Kirk's exact dialogue in "Whom Gods Destroy": "No, I- I can remember. You were the finest student at the Academy, the finest starship captain. You were the prototype, the model for the rest of us.")
I suppose attempted genocide might make that kinda politically-impractical.
(Kirk's exact dialogue in "Whom Gods Destroy": "No, I- I can remember. You were the finest student at the Academy, the finest starship captain. You were the prototype, the model for the rest of us.")
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Nope. "Whom Gods Destroy" treated it as a recent event. Garth was described as a new inmate, nobody knew about his powers until he took over the facility, and Kirk reacted to Garth's fall as if he still hadn't gotten used to the reality of it.
I have a feeling his exclusion might have something to do with a recent lawsuit.
That lawsuit was settled 9 months ago, in CBS's favor. As it should've been. CBS owns the character Garth of Izar. They have every right to do whatever they want with him, and Alec Peters's people have absolutely no claim on him and no power to stop his rightful owners from using him. At most, CBS or the DSC producers might've decided to shy away from a reminder of the controversy for the sake of PR, but there is absolutely no legal reason why they can't use their own intellectual property.
Not that they can't use the character, I was suggesting the DSC producers left Garth off the list because they knew it'd annoy the self-proclaimed "Keeper of the Faith of Star Trek fans"
You mean, they knew including Garth would annoy him and they wanted to avoid that, or they knew excluding Garth would annoy him and they wanted to embrace that?
Either way, the Axanar mess was hardly the only legal kerfuffle a big studio like CBS has had to deal with in its time. I just find it hard to believe that the makers of actual Trek would be as strongly affected by it as fandom was. Fans generally assume that creators have the same priorities they do, but frankly, fans tend to have a highly exaggerated idea of their own importance or the importance of the things they worry about. If anything, it would've been a matter for the studio legal department to deal with in order to minimize it as a distraction for the actual creators.
They knew excluding Garth from the list would annoy Peters.
In-universe, could he have been so great that he was too humble to accept the honours, and technically wasn't on the list that way?
Are military officers allowed to decline honors? I didn't think they could do that.
My hope is the Litverse establishes the Fungus Network as Fluidic Space.
Which would tie up a lot of things.
Which would tie up a lot of things.
Fluidic space was an alternate universe entirely, though, and "Choose Your Pain" just established the network as a subspace domain.
I'm inclined to go with a different view on the subject that Garth of Izar is probably No. 6# on the list.
Mind you, Decker and Pike being above him is a bit strange but perhaps Garth's career will be capstoned in the 10 years of conflict with the Klingons leading up to the event. I also believe, due to the copyright controversy, we'll probably see Axanar in this war.
Why?
Because the Klingons and Federation have apparently had no contact since the Enterprise Era let alone an infamous battle--assuming it's even still a battle against the Klingons in canon (as they can change it at any time). It's a retcon but hardly the biggest one.
I see no similarity whatsoever between the mycelial network and fluidic space. If anything, it's more like slipstream drive from Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda.
Except the list is alphabetical -- April, Archer, Decker, Georgiou, Pike. Garth would be #4.
Except the list is alphabetical -- April, Archer, Decker, Georgiou, Pike. Garth would be #4.
Yet, it's only five names.
My point being, "Garth of Izzar may be a famous Captain but he's not as famous and beloved as these people yet."
Perhaps due to the fact his fame as a strategist will probably be made in the biggest war the Federation has fought since the Romulans. It's very likely with Discovery that he'll make his "mark" as a wartime Captain.
As mentioned, I think given the Klingon's isolation, we'll see some events moved around timeline wise.
I was thinking along the lines of an organic network covering an entirety of reality. Which, given the universe is not actually full of fungus, seems like something to link with the Undine but I'm reaching I admit.
Again: in alphabetical order. Not order of importance or number of decorations. If Garth were on the list, he would be between Decker and Georgiou, not after Pike.
Come to think of it, Pike shouldn't even be on the list. As of 2256, he shouldn't have been a captain long enough to have accumulated as many decorations as Archer surely did over the course of his long career.
He's already made his mark. Kirk said Garth's exploits were required reading when he was at the Academy. Kirk graduated from the Academy in 2254, two years before this episode. Garth is already a legend.
A mycelial network isn't fluid, though. It's more like a root structure made of filaments of fungal cells.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycelium
And this one is explicitly in a domain of subspace, the part of this universe that starships travel through. It's not an entire universe, just a segment or layer of one. And it allows instantaneous travel, which fluidic space does not.