Spoilers Discovery and the Novelverse - TV show discussion thread

[Christopher]

He's not human, so who can say what his people's naming conventions are?

It's unclear whether he's human or not. Garth is a fairly ordinary human name of Norse or possibly Welsh origin. He's "of Izar," but Izar could be a human colony (which is how the novels interpret it), or it could just be a place he's associated with for reasons other than his birth, like Lawrence of Arabia (who was English) or "Zefram Cochrane of Alpha Centauri."

But since Garth is repeatedly addressed as "Captain Garth," that tells us that Garth is treated as his surname for the purposes of English speakers and official records. That's why it logically follows that his placement on an alphabetical list would be based on that name instead of some other.

 

[Stevil2001]

He's not human, so who can say what his people's naming conventions are?

Distinguished captains from Izar rename themselves after 20th/21st-century country music stars as a sign of respect. Garth of Izar was later eclipsed by Vince of Izar, Reba of Izar, and Martina of Izar.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Maybe they called him Captain Garth because he'd kill them if they didn't? Garth was, shall we say, 'off his feed' by the time we meet him.

 

[Nerys Myk]

It's unclear whether he's human or not. Garth is a fairly ordinary human name of Norse or possibly Welsh origin. He's "of Izar," but Izar could be a human colony (which is how the novels interpret it), or it could just be a place he's associated with for reasons other than his birth, like Lawrence of Arabia (who was English) or "Zefram Cochrane of Alpha Centauri."

But since Garth is repeatedly addressed as "Captain Garth," that tells us that Garth is treated as his surname for the purposes of English speakers and official records. That's why it logically follows that his placement on an alphabetical list would be based on that name instead of some other.

This seems to indicate he's not

GARTH: I am Lord Garth, formerly of Izar, and I lead the future masters of the universe.
KIRK: I'm sorry, Lord Garth.
GARTH: You Earth people are a stiff necked lot, aren't you?

I suppose Izar could be a colony, but "Earth people" usually means humans.

 

[Christopher]

I suppose Izar could be a colony, but "Earth people" usually means humans.

Tell that to all the humans from Luna, Mars, Alpha Centauri, Terra Nova, Vega Colony, Deneva, Cestus III, Turkana IV, etc. It does suggest that the writers' intent was for him to be an alien, but there's no unambiguous evidence in-story. And most fan and tie-in sources seem to have treated Izar as a human colony, going back to the 1980 Star Trek Maps.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Tell that to all the humans from Luna, Mars, Alpha Centauri, Terra Nova, Vega Colony, Deneva, Cestus III, Turkana IV, etc. It does suggest that the writers' intent was for him to be an alien, but there's no unambiguous evidence in-story. And most fan and tie-in sources seem to have treated Izar as a human colony, going back to the 1980 Star Trek Maps.

True but they way it's presented makes me think he was a non human. It's some what consistent with they non humans in the Trek universe speak of humans,

 

[JD]

He's not human, so who can say what his people's naming conventions are?

Tell that to all the humans from Luna, Mars, Alpha Centauri, Terra Nova, Vega Colony, Deneva, Cestus III, Turkana IV, etc. It does suggest that the writers' intent was for him to be an alien, but there's no unambiguous evidence in-story. And most fan and tie-in sources seem to have treated Izar as a human colony, going back to the 1980 Star Trek Maps.

Christine Vale is also from Izar and is human, and I don't believe the books have ever treated that as being at all unusual.

 

[Christopher]

True but they way it's presented makes me think he was a non human. It's some what consistent with they non humans in the Trek universe speak of humans,

As I said, yes, it seems likely that the scriptwriter's intent was for Garth to be an alien, but in execution, it was left vague enough to allow most extracanonical sources to treat Izar as a human colony. So while that probably was the intent, it is not an intent that's been honored all that much, if at all.

 

[Nerys Myk]

As I said, yes, it seems likely that the scriptwriter's intent was for Garth to be an alien, but in execution, it was left vague enough to allow most extracanonical sources to treat Izar as a human colony. So while that probably was the intent, it is not an intent that's been honored all that much, if at all.

Be more interesting if it had been.

 

[Christopher]

Of course, even if Izar is a colony founded by humans, that doesn't preclude other humanoid species from living there. So Garth could still be either human or alien.

 

[Chancellor M'rek]

Should Diane Duane ask for a check?

Experimental weird propulsion throws ship into mirror universe where crew has to impersonate their dupes and steal data files to get back home.

 

[Tuskin38]

No

 

[Enterprise1701]

I hope the current Discovery plotline doesn't drastically override Pocket Books' Mirror Universe stories. David Mack's Memory Omega storyline is brilliant!

 

[Enterprise1701]

Wow, yesterday's episode was a doozy. And this story arc will have a lot of ramifications for us novel readers.

(Is this thread alright for spoilers?)

 

[Christopher]

I hope the current Discovery plotline doesn't drastically override Pocket Books' Mirror Universe stories. David Mack's Memory Omega storyline is brilliant!

Well, there's always the "It's actually a slightly different Mirror Universe" retcon...

 

[tomswift2002]

She signed away those rights years ago.

 

[DimesDan]

(Is this thread alright for spoilers?)

 

[Markonian]

It contradicts Star Trek: Mirror Universe on who’s the emperor, and that the Terran Empire reigns supreme in local space.
However, both continuities remain valid (like ST: Dark Passions) because a DS9 Fearful Symmetry and TNG Q & A established there are multiple permutations of the mirror universe.

 

[MadeIndescribable]

Both women are captains, there's shagging, this is definitely Dark Passions mirror universe

 

[Tuskin38]

It contradicts Star Trek: Mirror Universe on who’s the emperor, and that the Terran Empire reigns supreme in local space.
However, both continuities remain valid (like ST: Dark Passions) because a DS9 Fearful Symmetry and TNG Q & A established there are multiple permutations of the mirror universe.

They never say who the emperor or empress is, and they are described as faceless.

Though I doubt it will be who it is in the novels.