Chakotay: 'I had a dream where my father took me to use a toilet, which is strange because it was always something i refused to do'
Lorca is a coward and murderer, how come he's a Starfleet Captain still??
- Thread starter Refuge
- Start date
Chakotay: 'I had a dream where my father took me to use a toilet, which is strange because it was always something i refused to do'
This isn't even a slow burn question.. it's just a simple revelation. Lorca is the Captain of Discovery and we found out he is known for killing a previous crew. That's not a good look.
Which hopefully will be further explained over the course of several episodes.
There is actually a starfleet order that allows for this course of action: Starfleet Order 2005: Orders the destruction of a starship by allowing matter and antimatter to mix in an uncontrolled manner. This was a last resort for a captain that allowed them to prevent their ship or crew from falling into enemy hands.
(http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Starfleet_General_Orders_and_Regulations#Starfleet_Orders
It hasn't been explained where he was when he ordered self destruct. Presumably he would only be able to do that on the ship, so it begs the question how he managed to escape when no one else did. Until we know exactly what happened, we can;t really judge his actions.
Janeway tried to blow up voyager multiple times to prevent it's capture, I supposed that would be murder/suicide, right?
I didn't see Janeway or Picard in last night's episode either.
I'm just going by what has been screened on Discovery and presumably what is natural to question. Killing an entire crew is not a minor plot point or something trivial attributed to Lorca or the Federation. I thought it was one of the big moments of the last episode, not something to be brushed embarrassingly away, lol. I bet the writers put it out there for a reason? They are hardly subtle.. or all that good for that matter.. but yeah.
I'm just going by what has been screened on Discovery and presumably what is natural to question. Killing an entire crew is not a minor plot point or something trivial attributed to Lorca or the Federation. I thought it was one of the big moments of the last episode, not something to be brushed embarrassingly away, lol. I bet the writers put it out there for a reason? They are hardly subtle.. or all that good for that matter.. but yeah.
The point trying to be made is a Starfleet Captain has the authority to destroy his ship with the crew on board it the situation demands it. Of course the writers put it out there for a reason and it will come into play in future episodes. You did ask precedence in the OP, right?
well it is if it takes a couple episodes to trickle down the whole story
Well I admit to not seeing Enterprise so I don't know the precedence. I just wondered what the state of the Federation was in during this time that Lorca is still a Captain after hearing what he did. How does that reflect on Starfleet principles and regulations?
The precedent wasn't set during enterprise. The precedent for captains destroying their commands with all hands was set in TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY
Which is after Discovery, yes? How is that a precedent to the events in question?
The precedent comes from previous Trek shows. In universe Enterprise is 100 years before DISCO/TOS and I don't recall any auto-destruct episodes. So it's impact on Federation of this era is pretty limited. DISCO is the only show set in this era. The Cage is the only other episode set in the same decade.
They are in the middle of the war and officers are in short supply. Also in the end precedent doesn't matter. CBS can do whatever they want with ST.
It establishes that Starfleet gives Captains the power.
I think you're trying to use a criticism of starfleet in the 23rd century as a criticism for the writing of Discovery in general, so the comparisons to previous series is valid.
However, chronologically speaking, considering starship commanders in the later 23rd century and 24th century often ordered the self destruction of their commands one can assume that starfleet were ok with captains blowing up their ships to avoid capture.
So when evaluating a stand alone episode it is to be not just in its context, that is Discovery verse, but we come to the table with future events to retro-actively judge in time (previous) situations? That's fun as far as comparisons but in terms of how the land lies, how the Discovery universe is being presented.. it is still worth challenging a basic premise of a show that likes to preach principles. The writers I'm almost positive would expect that. The mighty Federation as displayed in the timeline before most Trek shows has a Captain who killed his crew (as we have been told to date), and a mutineer who started a war.. both of which are leading the way.
I applaud your research
Lorca destroyed his own ship, killed his entire/own crew and ‘miraculously’ saved only himself. During a war the only result that’s gonna get you is a firing squad.
In TOS the Self destruct required 3 command officers to activate. It stands to reason that it may have taken 2 or 3 command officers to initiate self destruct in 2256, meaning Lorca may not have been able to act alone in destroying the ship. Captains destroying their vessels to avoid capture is nothing new to star trek, a captain not going down with the ship is. Cowardice doesn't seem to gel with what we've seen of Lorca thus far, he hasn't seemed phased by battle or torture. Lorca blowing up the crew to prevent them being tortured by the klingons, yet escaping in a lifeboat or shuttle doesn't make sense either. Presumably, the Buran was outnumbered and he risked capture by escaping. I'm wondering if Lorca may have been faced with a similar situation as the ending to the movie version of The Mist. Until we get a flashback or an explanation of what happened during the attack on the Buran, I'm reserving judgement.
