For telling the truth? I think not.
Spoilers Screen Rant: Star Trek: Discovery just commited war crimes
- Thread starter CardassianAssassin
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For telling the truth? I think not.
Georgiou was a great character
She's smart, loyal, compassionate and brave. I wouldn't have been surprised if she was one of Kirk's heroes (retcon)
I wish that they'd kept her on.
I agree that the fuss about Georgiou is mostly due to people trying to find a reason to hate Discovery and the horror of having two women leads but I also read somewhere that there were negative comments towards Star Trek catering to the Chinese market.
I dismiss Kirk's apparent war crimes in TWOK and TSFS because Khan is a criminal and Kruge wasn't sanctioned by the Klingon government so he gets off on a technicality (and Kirk wasn't going to gets any benefits from the surrender apart from torture and death). And I dismiss Georgiou's because she was in the middle of battle and the Klingons had no right to expect a cease-fire from the Shenzhou at that time.
I always though Kirk's actions in TSFS and "Day of the Dove" (similar idea, though he didn't kill the Klingons in that instance) to be extremely underhanded, and war crime like. I actually appreciated a comic that actually showcased Kirk being put on trial for a lot of different actions in TOS. It was the type of consequences that I really enjoyed.
Yeah I've been feeling for the last few weeks that Discovery is being held to a totally different standard than other Trek series. It's fine for people not to like the show, but i'm seeing a ton of intellectual dishonesty. It's bordering on irrational at this point.
That's always the way. Just look at how people pick at plot holes and questionable science in some Trek films while gushing over WoK - which has glaring examples of both.
Why is it even warcrime like or underhanded? Kirk is supposed to be sporting and say you caught me fair and square - just take my ship. Kang was torturing and holding hostages. Threatening to kill more hostages once they got aboard. Kirk would have been irresponsible to surrender not underhanded. Would a US patrol caught in a war zone give up their entire squadron to an ISIS suicide squad? Besides Kirk says no tricks (big emphasis) after we're on board.
You have to put it into perspective. The Enterprise can destroy planets. She cannot be allowed to captured by hostile forces.
Allowing the Klingons/Romulans to have unfettered access to the weapons of the Enterprise would be like allowing ISIS access to nuclear bombs.
I think Kruge was as sanctioned as you can get but probably disavowed afterward. Besides, they DID bring up all the stuff he'd done in the next film.
Some slog-off like the fact that the dark episodes provide a character contrast for people who mostly want to be there and try to do the right thing? Yes, Trek can be dark with people doing the wrong things. But up until Discovery, that was a piece of a bigger franchise, not the entirety of it. That is why things like "Balance of Terror", The Undiscovered Country and "The Best of Both Worlds" stand out.
What I think is funny, is that we aren't supposed to compare Discovery with other Star Trek, we aren't supposed to compare it to modern dramas. We are just supposed to unabashedly gush about it regardless of whatever it is CBS decides to give us.
That's exactly what some folks are saying.
There's an "Emperor's new clothes" anxiety surrounding the show, an unacknowledged sense that it doesn't compare well to very much.
You are permitted to compare it to the second season of Enterprise or to "Threshold."
We've reached the point people literally don't acknowledge the Kelvinverse exists, haven't we?
The Bright and Bubbly Star Trek where Alderaan...err Vulcan was destroyed but good guys are good and bad guys are nefarious.
No episode of ENT Season 2 was or remains as bad as "Threshold." None of them.
Alright, I can't back that up.
Alright, I can't back that up.
I love the Abrams movies, because they are fun to watch. The same reason I enjoy TOS, and The Orville. These are folks running around space in pajamas, travelling at ludicrous speeds and doing things that someone had to burning a joint when writing it.
I think asking it to not take itself so seriously is such a big request.
Right now, they are working with a subspace teddy bear, there should be some levity in that.
No episode of ENT Season 2 was or remains as bad as "Threshold." None of them.
Alright, I can't back that up.
Dear Doctor remains the nadir of the series because it's such a repulsive moral and also brought about by executive meddling.
Burnham and Georgia are criticized for committing a war crime because Burnham use the Geneva convention in the next episode in an attempt to tell Lorca what he is doing is wrong.
It's not just an arbitrary search for criticisms. Burnham states "That's a violation of the Geneva Convention AND that other Geneva convention, and is against what I believe in, and who I am."
I'm just going to assume the episodes were written far apart, and/or the writers just didn't realize. I would have a hard time believing that the dialogue is there intentionally.
It's not just an arbitrary search for criticisms. Burnham states "That's a violation of the Geneva Convention AND that other Geneva convention, and is against what I believe in, and who I am."
I'm just going to assume the episodes were written far apart, and/or the writers just didn't realize. I would have a hard time believing that the dialogue is there intentionally.
It's absolutely an arbitrary criticism because the complaints that started this thread were made over a week before the release of the episode where the Geneva Protocol of 1928 was mentioned. Or more accurately, the "Protocol for the Prohibition of the Use in War of Asphyxiating, Poisonous or other Gases, and of Bacteriological Methods of Warfare". You will notice that this protocol, and presumably the one of 2151, doesn't mention anything about booby traps (or false surrenders).
Worth noting that Kirk's crimes from STIII were actually called out on screen by the Klingon ambassador and as far as we know he was due to stand trial for them. We don't of course know specifically what he was to be charged with, but no-one actually contradicts what the ambassador says about his actions. However, Starfleet's justice system has always been very outcome based, i.e. if you end up doing a good thing in the end we'll just forget about all the crimes that lead up to it, so Kirk ended up not really answering for any of it.
Fan reaction, though, you're quite right, was probably pretty universally to cheer that outcome.
Fan reaction, though, you're quite right, was probably pretty universally to cheer that outcome.
Kirk's crimes were all spelled out at the court marshall at the end of TVH
Indeed, the Klingon Ambassador was pretty miffed that Kirk was just being charged with his crimes against Starfleet (theft, sabotage, destruction of property, and insubordination) and not being held accountable for anything he did to Kruge, his crew, or his ship.
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