Discovery and "The Orville" Comparisons

[galad2003]

Another solid Episode of the Orville last night. A little bit of humor with a good story. The Krill seem to be an interesting antagonist.

We also get to see the "evil" religious fanatics are not one dimensional and are people too and did a good job of showing the good and the bad of the enemy. Sure the show dogged on religion but maybe we will see more depth to this in future episodes when the Union can study their religion.

Spoiler

The Krill seem to be religious fanatics who want to attack everyone non-Krill. The Orville crew tried to make peace with them but then were confronted with a super weapon they had to act and make the moral decision to kill Krill kids or let Union children die. Captain Mercer tried to find an third option and save the Krill children, which while it worked the Krill children will probably hate him for killing the adults. Captain Mercer did not find a perfect solution and not everything was happily ever after. In fact he may have screwed up royally - and the episode is great that we can debate that. In a Star Trek show the hero crew would have found a solution and everything would have worked out perfectly.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

Another solid Episode of the Orville last night. A little bit of humor with a good story. The Krill seem to be an interesting antagonist.

We also get to see the "evil" religious fanatics are not one dimensional and are people too and did a good job of showing the good and the bad of the enemy. Sure the show dogged on religion but maybe we will see more depth to this in future episodes when the Union can study their religion.

Spoiler

The Krill seem to be religious fanatics who want to attack everyone non-Krill. The Orville crew tried to make peace with them but then were confronted with a super weapon they had to act and make the moral decision to kill Krill kids or let Union children die. Captain Mercer tried to find an third option and save the Krill children, which while it worked the Krill children will probably hate him for killing the adults. Captain Mercer did not find a perfect solution and not everything was happily ever after. In fact he may have screwed up royally - and the episode is great that we can debate that. In a Star Trek show the hero crew would have found a solution and everything would have worked out perfectly.

I'm an atheist but I have a good reverence for the faithful and faith oriented people. I gotta say when trek encounters religion or religious cultures it's usually with a lot more diversity than Orville,

Orville's stance seems to be "religion baaaaad"

 

[GeekUSACarl]

I didn't like the part about 2 goofy and dorky spies playing double agents like idiots in the face of villains. .

I gotta be honest, if it was full on Frank Drebin in space, I'd probably die laughing.

 

[McDuff]

I gotta be honest, if it was full on Frank Drebin in space, I'd probably die laughing.

LOL They really should have made the movie! Just thinking about it is funny.

 

[galad2003]

I'm an atheist but I have a good reverence for the faithful and faith oriented people. I gotta say when trek encounters religion or religious cultures it's usually with a lot more diversity than Orville,

Orville's stance seems to be "religion baaaaad"

Orville did take that stance this episode. I am hoping they will do more in later episodes to prove this wrong. I have a feeling they are setting up a story arc with the Krill and hope we get more details of their religion. If the show just hammers home religion is bad and is for crazies then I will lose interest.

 

[Tesophius]

Merry band of skinheads = want racial purity because reasons.

Klingons = want racial purity because reasons.

Sure, but this type of a story can be set in our time and be more interesting and relevant. For a sci-fi story taking place in the 23rd century they should have came up with something more interesting than dumb racists.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Sure, but this type of a story can be set in our time and be more interesting and relevant. For a sci-fi story taking place in the 23rd century they should have came up with something more interesting than dumb racists.

But it's a real thing that happens every day. Do real-life racists have understandable motivations with any depth beyond "different = scary = keep it away"? It's Star Trek taking a relevant current-day issue that affects millions and dressing it up in silly costumes.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

Do real-life racists have understandable motivations with any depth beyond "different = scary = keep it away"?

I think that depends. Think about gangs where in certain neighborhoods racism is an essential part of survival, it's not the norm but in these parts of society different = dead. Certainly an extreme example. But these are still even societies and cultures within our own.

Very different when discussing entirely different races. If earth were at war with mars ( assuming there are martians ) then that would mean one entire race of people at war with another race of "something" in that case, different then = dead. I think racism under that circumstance would be more understandable if not equally as sad.

The "general" racism on earth is a misnomer as we're one race but it's less understandable because we have so much common ground.

I think racism becomes less reasonable the more you find common ground and similarities.

 

[SJA]

I gotta be honest, if it was full on Frank Drebin in space, I'd probably die laughing.

Now that's a show I'd watch!

 

[gblews]

Orville did take that stance this episode. I am hoping they will do more in later episodes to prove this wrong. I have a feeling they are setting up a story arc with the Krill and hope we get more details of their religion. If the show just hammers home religion is bad and is for crazies then I will lose interest.

The episode, "And the Stars Will Appear" (could be wrong about that title), also took an anti organized religion and anti god tone, which are both in line with McFarlane's personal beliefs.

It will be interesting to see if this pattern continues.

 

[alex08060]

Orville is just too swallow, Captain Lorca would have just kill the krill children because the krills were targeting federations children if there was no good way to make anyone happy so it is either them or us. Then we will have the hard debate about this decision. This just prove Orville Isn’t for mature viewers.

Sisko did the same thing to the The Maquis in DS9.

 

[Prax]

Lorca doesn't care about children, and doesn't know how to fight battles, or rescue civilians in danger.

We know that much, now. He's no Garth.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

Lorca doesn't care about children, and doesn't know how to fight battles, or rescue civilians in danger.

We know that much, now. He's no Garth.

Kids? pffffft! you mean CANON FODDER!

 

[F. King Daniel]

We know that much, now. He's no Garth.

No crazy, shapeshifting murderer??

 

[2takesfrakes]

The Orville sucks - it really does! - and I refuse to watch any more of it. Discovery, for all of the room for improvement it's demonstrated, has the edge on Orville. STAR TREK is the better show.

 

[Prax]

"LORD Garth!"

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I'm an atheist but I have a good reverence for the faithful and faith oriented people. I gotta say when trek encounters religion or religious cultures it's usually with a lot more diversity than Orville,

Orville's stance seems to be "religion baaaaad"

Considering the Union undertook an extremely risky mission for the express purpose of learning about the belief system of an implacable foe purely in order to build a bridge between their governments, I don't think that's a fair assessment. If they thought the Krill were too far gone because of their religion they wouldn't have even bothered to attempt to find a peace with them. It's clear from the end of the episode that the show is going to continue arcing towards a conciliation with the Krill in the future.

I seem to remember Trek having some pretty harsh things to say about religion at times, particularly under Picard. And there were plenty of species with fanatical belief systems featured as well.

 

[OpenMaw]

Considering the Union undertook an extremely risky mission for the express purpose of learning about the belief system of an implacable foe purely in order to build a bridge between their governments, I don't think that's a fair assessment. If they thought the Krill were too far gone because of their religion they wouldn't have even bothered to attempt to find a peace with them. It's clear from the end of the episode that the show is going to continue arcing towards a conciliation with the Krill in the future.

I seem to remember Trek having some pretty harsh things to say about religion at times, particularly under Picard. And there were plenty of species with fanatical belief systems featured as well.

Indeed. Well, I don't know about harsh, but fairly cold-hard facts with little sympathy.

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"Who Watches The Watchers"

Of course depending on how you interpret what Picard is saying, it could be taken that they're simply horrified by religious extremism. Though, I think the rest of the episode does not bare that out...

 

[GeekUSACarl]

Considering the Union undertook an extremely risky mission for the express purpose of learning about the belief system of an implacable foe purely in order to build a bridge between their governments, I don't think that's a fair assessment. If they thought the Krill were too far gone because of their religion they wouldn't have even bothered to attempt to find a peace with them. It's clear from the end of the episode that the show is going to continue arcing towards a conciliation with the Krill in the future.

I seem to remember Trek having some pretty harsh things to say about religion at times, particularly under Picard. And there were plenty of species with fanatical belief systems featured as well.

I believe trek mostly treated with a balance. The Bajorans are a great example of that.

I think the context that Orville established was pretty clear. Usually advanced cultures leave it by the wayside, and they paint the only two religious cultures as oppressive and war like.

They are making more of a statement. I don't remember trek having harsh things to say about "religion" as a whole, and certainly not as a consistent philosophy.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I believe trek mostly treated with a balance. The Bajorans are a great example of that.

I think the context that Orville established was pretty clear. Usually advanced cultures leave it by the wayside, and they paint the only two religious cultures as oppressive and war like.

They are making more of a statement. I don't remember trek having harsh things to say about "religion" as a whole, and certainly not as a consistent philosophy.

Did you just match up 546 hours of Trek to 7 hours of The Orville and three series worth of depictions of the Bajorans versus two episodes of the Krill as if that's a fair comparison? C'mon, man. There were times the Bajorans were depicted as religious fanatics as well. If we took those episodes in isolation without waiting for the bigger picture would that be fair?