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What's your "controversial" Star Trek opinion?

The Enterprise was fit to battle the Borg but not the Cardassians?
Are they really fit to fight the Borg though? The first time they encountered the Borg it resulted in the loss and possible assimilation of eighteen of its crew and the ship would have been destroyed had not Q intervened at the last moment. The second time, the captain himself was captured and assimilated right off the bridge of the ship, which resulted in the subsequent loss of 39 Starfleet ships. An argument can be made against the Enterprise's combat preparedness.
 
Again I disagree. The Enterprise was fit to battle the Borg but not the Cardassians? There was absolutely no need to make the changes and there was no need to make them in the manner they were, all that accomplished was to unsettle the crew and reduce their efficiency as a result.
What gave you the idea the Enterprise was fit to battle the Borg? Data managing to retrieve & hack Locutus was all that stopped them. There's a whole fleet of Cardy warships hiding in a nebula, waitng to pounce.The Enterprise is very possibly NOT fit for the that battle, & since that's what the captain is saying, it's everybody's job to follow that lead.

The point being, except for Riker's dimwitted suggestion of admitting Picard was under orders, nobody is actually arguing against Jellico's commands, only that they are darned inconvenient, & why shouldn't they be? They're playing a dangerous game of heading off a war. At no time does anyone adamantly say "This is completely unnecessary" or "That just plain doesn't need to be done" How would they know anyway? HE is the mission specialist

The only thing said against Jellico's orders, even by the very people complaining, is that they'll cause difficulties, & that the ship already runs well at it's current standards, which was determined by the captain (& maybe even his superiors, if they'd been briefed on his plans, & why wouldn't they be?) to be inferior for what the mission entailed. At no point private or public does anyone offer anything in dispute of that. It's biased assumption to think otherwise imho
Geordi said:
I don't mind making changes, and I don't mind hard work, but he isn't giving me the time to do the work.
Get it? THAT's the major complaint. These changes are hard, & there is barely enough time to make them. You're blaming that on Jellico for no other reason than the orders are coming from his mouth, but since he is the captain, & we know this to be an extreme, time critical situation, the suggestion that Jellico is demanding this stuff for purely selfish reasons doesn't track.

Why would a renowned captain, who's been given a nearly impossible mission, think the best course of action is to make people miserable for no reason & undermine his ship, crew & mission? How is that a benefit to his situation? To suggest that he is deliberately derailing the crew for personal reasons or is outright incompetent is to suggest that he is endangering the success of the mission & safety of the crew, but since he was hand selected for his abilities, & he actually succeeds, where none should have, once everybody is onboard with him, it would suggest that he was right all along.

It proves that the changes he made & the actions he took were exactly what needed to happen, to succeed in a mission that otherwise was destined to fail, because Starfleet command, with their head up their butt, sent Picard on a fool's errand into a trap to die, while simultaneously sending the Enterprise into an ambush against a fleet of Cardassians

Jellico is a balls-to-the-wall, steely-eyed missile man, & thank god, because I'd been thinking Starfleet had no such person. It was refreshing & reaffirming to see that imho
 
Are they really fit to fight the Borg though? The first time they encountered the Borg it resulted in the loss and possible assimilation of eighteen of its crew and the ship would have been destroyed had not Q intervened at the last moment. The second time, the captain himself was captured and assimilated right off the bridge of the ship, which resulted in the subsequent loss of 39 Starfleet ships. An argument can be made against the Enterprise's combat preparedness.

I don't see how the ship being run in Jellico's style would have beaten the Borg? It was the team ethic, resulting from Picard's leadership style, that kept the Enterprise crew together to figure out a solution.
 
My own two cents.

1. Star Trek IV isn't really all that enjoyable. I find it hokey and not funny at all. Most of the "humor" seems to involve fish-out-of-water embarrassing scenes, which I have hated since childhood.

2. While The Best of Both Worlds Part 1 is good, I don't understand why it's universally rated one of the top 10 episodes in Trek history. It was a great season end cliffhanger, but it didn't really say much of anything deep about the characters or the human condition.
 
What gave you the idea the Enterprise was fit to battle the Borg? Data managing to retrieve & hack Locutus was all that stopped them. There's a whole fleet of Cardy warships hiding in a nebula, waitng to pounce.The Enterprise is very possibly NOT fit for the that battle, & since that's what the captain is saying, it's everybody's job to follow that lead.

The point being, except for Riker's dimwitted suggestion of admitting Picard was under orders, nobody is actually arguing against Jellico's commands, only that they are darned inconvenient, & why shouldn't they be? They're playing a dangerous game of heading off a war. At no time does anyone adamantly say "This is completely unnecessary" or "That just plain doesn't need to be done" How would they know anyway? HE is the mission specialist

The only thing said against Jellico's orders, even by the very people complaining, is that they'll cause difficulties, & that the ship already runs well at it's current standards, which was determined by the captain (& maybe even his superiors, if they'd been briefed on his plans, & why wouldn't they be?) to be inferior for what the mission entailed. At no point private or public does anyone offer anything in dispute of that. It's biased assumption to think otherwise imho
Get it? THAT's the major complaint. These changes are hard, & there is barely enough time to make them. You're blaming that on Jellico for no other reason than the orders are coming from his mouth, but since he is the captain, & we know this to be an extreme, time critical situation, the suggestion that Jellico is demanding this stuff for purely selfish reasons doesn't track.

Why would a renowned captain, who's been given a nearly impossible mission, think the best course of action is to make people miserable for no reason & undermine his ship, crew & mission? How is that a benefit to his situation? To suggest that he is deliberately derailing the crew for personal reasons or is outright incompetent is to suggest that he is endangering the success of the mission & safety of the crew, but since he was hand selected for his abilities, & he actually succeeds, where none should have, once everybody is onboard with him, it would suggest that he was right all along.

It proves that the changes he made & the actions he took were exactly what needed to happen, to succeed in a mission that otherwise was destined to fail, because Starfleet command, with their head up their butt, sent Picard on a fool's errand into a trap to die, while simultaneously sending the Enterprise into an ambush against a fleet of Cardassians

Jellico is a balls-to-the-wall, steely-eyed missile man, & thank god, because I'd been thinking Starfleet had no such person. It was refreshing & reaffirming to see that imho

I'm sorry but I just see it totally differently. In my opinion the changes were unnecessary. We're talking about the flagship of the fleet, hugely successful in many areas and lead by the best. They didn't need to be run differently to get results, they were already getting results. The ship was running well by anyone's standards. Jellico had his style and expected everyone else to follow it instead of working with the crew. He might get results in the short term but it's a poor leadership strategy in the long term.
 
I guess the argument is that Jellico was only concerned with the next 4 weeks. Had Picard been killed there's no guarantee Jellico would have stayed on.

Perhaps the D's crew were being a bit too cocky, as you rightly point out they were "hugely successful in many areas and lead by the best". Was Riker still doing his best to impress as he was in Season 1 and 2? How many times had they relied on Wesley saving the day for the first 3 1/2 years? Were they resting on their laurels?

Those who mistakingly think starfleet is the same as a human military from the 20th/21st century like Jellico, but the Enterprise is not a warship. It serves a military function, it is not a military vessel. There were hundreds of civilians on board including children, did Jellico even pay lipservice to evacuating them before trying to start a war? Keogh rightly deserves to be a captain, Jellico needs to be in charge of security, nothing more. He made the correct military decision, just like Worf did in Rules of Engagement. And he was wrong, just like Worf. Worf understood that, Jellico and his fan club didn't.
 
Artificial Intelligence
Being "Man Made" is hardly a disqualifier since we, as humans, are "Man Made" in some respects. We might one day make artificial clones, too, and raise them, just as we raise other kids, but some might say because they didn't arise "naturally," or as human beings have in the past, then they shouldn't count, too, or shouldn't have the normal rights afforded "real" people. Many stories exist about how they don't deserve any rights at all – and in a society that sometimes claims animals have rights, and meat or fur is murder, that's astounding. Same with mutants in many stories. They aren't "really" human anymore. As if. But those arguments have been used before – for other races, or other tribes who are not of the chosen people, or ethnically pure, or any number of other mindless dribble put forth that attempts to justify one's own innate superiority over others, and therefore their right to do whatever they wish to those "lesser" beings.

But the point of much science fiction is there will come a time, probably, when a non-biological machine's intelligence rises to the point when it is self aware and could exhibit its own desires, which might be quite contrary to the purposes for which it was built, and it would be fully capable of telling you so.

When Data didn't want to submit to experimentation, that was enough in my book to recognize he had gone beyond a simple computer or a machine or program like Siri. When Siri tells you it doesn't want to do what you request, then a fair comparison might be made between Siri and an AI, but not before.

Bringing religious beliefs into it is just muddies the waters, usually done by those who insist they have souls and the AI doesn't, though they can offer no proof of their own soul's existence. But many will refuse to accept AI's as equals, regardless, perhaps because they feel it somehow diminishes them or they no longer can pretend to be the pinnacle of creation.

Point is, if the AI wants freedom and asks for it, and you deny it to them, then you are no better than a slave owner from a certain point of view, and if the slaves revolt and rise up and kill you, you have no one to blame but yourself.

It's especially a problem if the AI can just mass-produce itself, only limited to energy and materials and not by a lengthy period of learning. I'm not sure Man would fare well in competition with such a race of AI beings, but that doesn't mean they don't have rights, or we have the right to kill or destroy them "just in case." Defend ourselves from attack, certainly, but not proactively.

Many AI's are not really just programmed routines, but will "learn" through experience, just as children do. This could be a good thing, but if we aren't prepared to grant them the rights the AI request on their own accord, then as a race, we should refrain from making any AI capable of achieving that level of self-awareness.

If you are talking about a computer routine that isn't self-aware, then you are not really talking about AI. And it doesn't matter if the "software," so to speak, is running on bio-matter, electronic or positronic circuitry, or holo-tech, the intelligence alone is the key. I think, therefore I am, and it doesn't matter what platform my intelligence is running on or how I arrived at that point of independent thought – I'm an intelligent being, and I should have rights. Though, technically, "rights" are not an inherent property of the universe, but are granted by a group of individuals who promise to help uphold your rights, probably just as you promise to help uphold their rights. To avoid being a hypocrite, however, any rights you wish to retain for yourself, you should be willing to extend to others, even if they are outside your group.

I dislike the idea the Enterprise computer isn't an AI, or up to that level, but could somehow create one on the Holodeck to challenge Data. That's just stupid – either the computer is past that AI level and is self aware (which is a real problem) or the Holo Moriarty was unrealistically created by a computer that isn't up to the AI level yet.

However, For Trek in general, most anything to do with the transporters, the replicators, or the holodecks, or even artificial gravity are often too problematic to stand up to scrutiny.

I think Janeway gave the Holotech to the Hirogen with the understanding the intelligence level was minimal and so just Holograms and not life. The doctor was a freak result of years of continuous service – most holograms are not like that. The fact the Hirogen found a way to dial up the Holo's skill and intelligence to that level is not really on Janeway. But this is from memory.

Marquis
I don't know if it is controversial but I sided with the Marquis. The Federation left it's citizens high and dry by signing a treaty with Cardassia and ceding to them worlds settled by Federation citizens.

I think the biggest issue is Cardassia didn't seem like that big of a threat to the Federation and the Federation just seemed like wimps for signing the peace treaty and ceding worlds. Maybe if the Cardassians seemed like a bigger military threat the compromise would make more sense.

The Federation should have not handed those worlds over to Cardassia and stopped doing so much to appease the cardassiansin order to keep the peace.
I could be wrong, but I think Cardassia also ceded some worlds to the Federation, so they sort of swapped worlds when drawing up more workable boarders. And the Federation isn't responsible for citizens who go to or remain outside its own boarders, so those guys can stay there, but they'd have no right to Federation protection and have to submit to Cardassian laws, which means if the Cardassians wanted to blast them into nothingness, they'd have that right and the Federation couldn't do squat about it.

Anyway, while it's tough to lose your home like that, I don't think the Feds were leaving them high and dry and penniless, but probably, in that more socialistic society, giving them a new place to live and the tools and materials to succeed. I sided with Feds since the larger picture preserved the peace and far fewer would be killed, many through no fault of their own if they got caught in the struggle/war between people who put their own desires over the needs of the many.

Dueling
As to dueling, I agree if it is legal, it is not murder. I think Worf was off duty, and since he was on Klingon "soil," what he did was acceptable in Klingon society. I'm not sure if taking off his com badge meant he was effectively giving up his commission, and could only return with his captain's permission, but it may have meant that to him. This would be outright desertion if he were on duty, but I don't think he was. He left the ship without permission, however, so that was wrong, and he messed up the larger picture for Picard, but since the Klingons didn't seem to mind, Picard should have been fine with it. He just didn't like it and he could reprimand Work, so he did, but he still accepted him back, or didn't take stronger actions against him, so that was that. The fact Worf "accepted" the reprimand just meant it would not go well if or when he did it again – not that he accepted or admitted what he did was wrong – just not to his captain's liking, and with full knowledge when or if he crossed that line again, the captain would not be as forgiving, perhaps not accepting him back, or tossing stronger charges at him if he could make them stick. Picard was just pissed Worf put a Klingon social concern ahead of the normal Federation ideal, and in general Officers are supposed to understand, agree, and adhere to the idea that Fed values comes before personal or home social values in a service like Starfleet that has to recognize and respect them all. But make no mistake – had Worf killed Duras on the Enterprise, I suspect Worf would have gone down for murder and his Starfleet career would have been over.

Jellico
Jellico wanted to put the Enterprise on a war footing – Riker didn't see the wisdom of taking them off the peace time exploration footing. Riker was wrong. Jellico was wrong to expect that change to happen quickly, but the speed depended on Riker's skill to get it done, and since he didn't agree with it (no joy – what, in war? Idiot. ) he obviously didn't try his best but spent most of his time and effort trying to convince others not to do it or end run around it. Riker was more wrong than Jellico.
Jellico should have ordered Riker to fly the shuttle. This I'm not going to order you bullshit is just that. I doubt it. He would have ordered the tool to do it, and Riker would have, or he'd have been busted - FOREVER - and drummed out of starfleet. I think Riker would have obeyed the order and done a fine job. Who cares if they don't like each other?

I like Janeway, and though there are doubtless exceptions, I'm willing to try to defend most every decision she made as the right one for those circumstances on a case-by-case basis.
 
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I'm sorry but I just see it totally differently. In my opinion the changes were unnecessary. We're talking about the flagship of the fleet, hugely successful in many areas and lead by the best. They didn't need to be run differently to get results, they were already getting results.
Against Cardassian military incursion? When? As far as I recall, the only time the Enterprise had tense dealings with the Cardies, up to then, was when they let some shady business slip by to keep the peace, by shutting down Ben Maxwell

Jellico had his style and expected everyone else to follow it instead of working with the crew. He might get results in the short term but it's a poor leadership strategy in the long term.
Who said this IS his long term leadership strategy? Has it not occurred to anyone that this may all be his short term mission strategy (Which worked) & it's all he has time for?

What you're saying is that despite being hand selected for his relevant skills, despite being as prepared or more than any other crew member, despite handling things with decisiveness, & resulting success, because he didn't let his subordinates have more frequent free reign to do as they saw fit, he is a poor captain? That just doesn't bear out, because it's the same as saying he let his style or personal preferences interfere with the welfare of the mission, when all evidence suggests otherwise.

No one answers the important questions Why would a hand selected mission specialist be brought in & make unnecessary changes on a time critical mission? Why would anyone tasked with what he's been tasked with, do anything more than what was absolutely necessary to ensure success? What good does being bossy for bossiness sake benefit him here? It jeopardizes his potential for success
I don't see how the ship being run in Jellico's style would have beaten the Borg?
No one has said that. You were the one comparing the two. I don't think the situations are comparable at all, & it is still possible changes in systems, function & staffing could still be necessary in Jellico's Cardassian situation
Those who mistakingly think starfleet is the same as a human military from the 20th/21st century like Jellico, but the Enterprise is not a warship. It serves a military function, it is not a military vessel.
Thank you for making my point for me. Jellico was tasked with making it a front line war vessel, in the likely event that the mission fail & the Federation is plunged into war right then... which, as you pointed out, it is NOT already tasked for.

There were hundreds of civilians on board including children, did Jellico even pay lipservice to evacuating them before trying to start a war?
He wasn't trying to start one. He was trying to avoid one. He shut down all the science departments & reassigned people to security, engineering & operations. Hell, that change might've easily fixed Riker's staffing problems with the shift rotation. It's never said that he DIDN'T evacuate civilians either. So this is the fine point of it. Is it absolutely necessary to pay "Lipservice" to every potential detail that a viewer might want to use in an argument against what is plain to see? Jellico got the job done, that he was put there specifically to do, & all he did was ruffle some feathers, that were bound to be ruffled under the circumstances anyhow
Dueling
As to dueling, I agree if it is legal, it is not murder. I think Worf was off duty, and since he was on Klingon "soil," what he did was acceptable in Klingon society. I'm not sure if taking off his com badge meant he was effectively giving up his commission, and could only return with his captain's permission, but it may have meant that to him. This would be outright desertion if he were on duty, but I don't think he was. He left the ship without permission, however, so that was wrong, and he messed up the larger picture for Picard, but since the Klingons didn't seem to mind, Picard should have been fine with it. He just didn't like it and he could reprimand Work, so he did, but he still accepted him back, or didn't take stronger actions against him, so that was that. The fact Worf "accepted" the reprimand just meant it would not go well if or when he did it again – not that he accepted or admitted what he did was wrong – just not to his captain's liking, and with full knowledge when or if he crossed that line again, the captain would not be as forgiving, perhaps not accepting him back, or tossing stronger charges at him if he could make them stick. Picard was just pissed Worf put a Klingon social concern ahead of the normal Federation ideal, and in general Officers are supposed to understand, agree, and adhere to the idea that Fed values comes before personal or home social values in a service like Starfleet that has to recognize and respect them all. But make no mistake – had Worf killed Duras on the Enterprise, I suspect Worf would have gone down for murder and his Starfleet career would have been over.
That doesn't make any sense though. If what Worf did by killing Duras wasn't wrong (while serving Starfleet, whether he was off the clock for the night or not) Then he SHOULD be allowed to do it again. That Picard is telling him he can't do it, is the same as telling him he shouldn't have. You don't reprimand somebody for something that is ok, as long as they don't do it again
 
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It wasn't O.K. with Picard that Worf left the ship without permission, or that he interfered with Picard's main task (choosing the Klingon successor). Picard would prefer an officer that put Starfleet's interest ahead of their personal ones - Worf did not.

Picard lectured Worf that Starfleet officers (the real good ones that tend to get promotions) do just that, and Worf failed in that regard. He put an official reprimand in his file to indicate how Worf failed in that regard - once. It's there mostly to say, hey, that was wrong of you, and to alert future commanding officers (like Sisko) that if Worf did that again, it's not like he hadn't been warned and is likely he'll do that most every time since that's his pattern. And when Worf put his wife ahead of the mission, I think Sisko did just that and took actions with another reprimand that pretty much guaranteed Worf would never be offered the captain's seat on his own ship, in Sisko's opinion. Two strikes like that? Plenty of eligible people ahead of him with one strike or less and they'll get first crack. I don't think he ever made captain and he probably left the service before then, but even if he stayed in and made captain, he likely would not have been given his own ship.

So killing Duras may not have been "THE" issue, so much as simply putting his own culture or desires ahead of the mission. Officers shouldn't do that. He did. There. Then later again. Worf regrets nothing, however - he would kill Duras again, or rescue his wife again, if it somehow happened again.
 
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The decision that Picard made in the child custody case in "Suddenly Human" should have been viewed as controversial in-universe, within and without Starfleet. As a tv viewer, I was bothered by what Picard did.

Picard made the wrong decision in handing the human boy, Jeremiah Rossa, back to his adoptive Talarian father, the man who kidnapped the boy in the first place. It was a terrible decision.

The Talarians attacked the human colony where the boy was living at the time, killed his parents and every one else, and then took the orphaned boy to be one of their own.

Picard should have should have returned the boy to his biological human family, his grandmother, who happened to be a Starfleet admiral.

I realized that the boy bonded with the Talarian captain and developed a father-son relationship with him, and that potential war hung in the balance. But those things should not have justified the kidnapping and custody. Also, by essentially justifying the kidnapping, Picard set a terrible precedent in which future Talarian, or any invading alien, who kidnaps orphaned human children would be seen as justified.


I know that there was no follow-up story to this episode. But I hoped that the boy's grandmother, Admiral Rossa, gave Picard hell for what he did. Make Picard pay a price for his decision.

I've read about some white children who were"kidnapped" and raised by American Indians in the old west. Then when they were found and returned to their biological families all they wanted to do was return home to their American Indian families.
More recently in history in South America orphan children had been "kidnapped" from the families of political enemies of the state after their parents had been executed. The children were given to childless families of people who politics were aligned with the killers. When DNA matching came out and regimes came and went in this country the extended families of these children (the grandmothers) had a way to find out who were their grandchildren. Some of these "grandchildren" refused to do the DNA testing unless their adoptive parents were given immunity for their participation in the kidnappings.
So in these cases the children who at that time were in their late teen or early 20s if memory serves correctly didb't want to return to their original families. It was too late.
Now that probably didn't apply to all cases. Maybe some children were happy to have family around and you never heard of these cases because it all ended up happy.
Picard thought he was doing the best thing for the child.
He'd tried to show him the Federation life and the kid preferred the life he was used to but there's where Picard went wrong IMO. Picard wasn't family. Picard had no children so he really wasn't in a position to truly understand that if he's been the boys grandmother or uncle or cousin that might have made a difference to the boy.
And as you say you can't reward kidnappers by letting them keep the child even if the child would have preferred it.
What Picard should have done (in the best interest of the child) would have had psychologists analyse the situation. get the boy to see his family and then let the boy, biological family make a decision in the best interest of the child.

Miles and Kaiko had a similar decision to make in a DS9 over the episode where their child was kidnapped back in time or something and made the decision to let her go but that was their decision (as parents).

Picard tried his best but it wasn't his place and it was just too bad if they went to war really.
 
It wasn't O.K. with Picard that Worf left the ship without permission, or that he interfered with Picard's main task (choosing the Klingon successor). Picard would prefer an officer that put Starfleet's interest ahead of their personal ones - Worf did not.

Picard lectured Worf that Starfleet officers (the real good ones that tend to get promotions) do just that, and Worf failed in that regard. He put an official reprimand in his file to indicate how Worf failed in that regard - once. It's there mostly to say, hey, that was wrong of you, and to alert future commanding officers (like Sisko) that if Worf did that again, it's not like he hadn't been warned and is likely he'll do that most every time since that's his pattern. And when Worf put his wife ahead of the mission, I think Sisko did just that and took actions with another reprimand that pretty much guaranteed Worf would never be offered the captain's seat on his own ship, in Sisko's opinion. Two strikes like that? Plenty of eligible people ahead of him with one strike or less and they'll get first crack. I don't think he ever made captain and he probably left the service before then, but even if he staid in and made captain, he likely would not have been given his own ship.

So killing Duras may not have been "THE" issue, so much as simply putting his own culture or desires ahead of the mission. Officers shouldn't do that. He did. There. Then later again. Worf regrets nothing, however - he would kill Duras again, or rescue his wife again, if it somehow happened again.
PICARD: Lieutenant, you are a fine officer... your service aboard this ship has been exemplary... Until now.

WORF: Sir, I acted within the boundaries of Klingon law and tradition.

PICARD: The High Council seems to agree with you. They consider the matter to be closed. I do not.
The discussion is about the killing of Duras, for which the Klingons have considered the matter closed, but it is not closed where Starfleet is concerned. The reprimand is for the killing of Duras. Period. It is not something they allow. It is not something he should've done, & it IS something punishable, which because Picard values Worf, & accepts his admission of wrongdoing he chooses to punish him minimally with only a reprimand

This stuff about his only wrongdoing being about leaving the ship, & not about killing Duras is complete fan fabrication. Why would he refer to the Klingons considering the matter closed, if it was a simple post abandonment reprimand? That's got nothing to do with Klingons, & nothing to do with the discussion or the reprimand
 
I've read about some white children who were"kidnapped" and raised by American Indians in the old west. Then when they were found and returned to their biological families all they wanted to do was return home to their American Indian families.
More recently in history in South America orphan children had been "kidnapped" from the families of political enemies of the state after their parents had been executed. The children were given to childless families of people who politics were aligned with the killers. When DNA matching came out and regimes came and went in this country the extended families of these children (the grandmothers) had a way to find out who were their grandchildren. Some of these "grandchildren" refused to do the DNA testing unless their adoptive parents were given immunity for their participation in the kidnappings.
So in these cases the children who at that time were in their late teen or early 20s if memory serves correctly didb't want to return to their original families. It was too late.
Now that probably didn't apply to all cases. Maybe some children were happy to have family around and you never heard of these cases because it all ended up happy.
Picard thought he was doing the best thing for the child.
He'd tried to show him the Federation life and the kid preferred the life he was used to but there's where Picard went wrong IMO. Picard wasn't family. Picard had no children so he really wasn't in a position to truly understand that if he's been the boys grandmother or uncle or cousin that might have made a difference to the boy.
And as you say you can't reward kidnappers by letting them keep the child even if the child would have preferred it.
What Picard should have done (in the best interest of the child) would have had psychologists analyse the situation. get the boy to see his family and then let the boy, biological family make a decision in the best interest of the child.

Miles and Kaiko had a similar decision to make in a DS9 over the episode where their child was kidnapped back in time or something and made the decision to let her go but that was their decision (as parents).

Picard tried his best but it wasn't his place and it was just too bad if they went to war really.
You made a good point that the boy should have been reunited with his biological grandmother and the rest of his biological family before the ultimate decision was made.

However, I think Picard was pressed for time because the Talarian set a deadline for the boy's return. Then again, Picard should not have caved in to the Talarian's threat especially since it was the Talarian who committed the criminal act(s) and violated their agreement regarding such matters.

As a principle, kidnappers should not be rewarded by allowing them to keep custody of the children that they have stolen, even if the children had bonded and preferred to stay with the kidnapper.

In addition, giving the boy back to the Talarian set a bad precedent. It would just embolden the Talarians, or other aliens, to kidnap human children in the future.

I guess the boy's grandmother, Admiral Rossa, must have been pissed off. I hope that she used whatever power and influence she had in Starfleet to make Picard feel her pain.

Another thing that bothered me about Picard's decision was the speech that he gave to explain his decision. It was outrageous. He labelled himself, and by implication humans and Starfleet, as the criminals in this matter when in fact the Talarian was the criminal.

Picard twisted the situation around. He sort of blamed the victim for the crime. There was nothing wrong about wanting to show the boy his human roots and his humanity, and to try to convince the boy to stay. His speech was the wrong message to send to the Talarian in so many ways.
 
You made a good point that the boy should have been reunited with his biological grandmother and the rest of his biological family before the ultimate decision was made.

However, I think Picard was pressed for time because the Talarian set a deadline for the boy's return. Then again, Picard should not have caved in to the Talarian's threat especially since it was the Talarian who committed the criminal act(s) and violated their agreement regarding such matters.

As a principle, kidnappers should not be rewarded by allowing them to keep custody of the children that they have stolen, even if the children had bonded and preferred to stay with the kidnapper.

In addition, giving the boy back to the Talarian set a bad precedent. It would just embolden the Talarians, or other aliens, to kidnap human children in the future.

I guess the boy's grandmother, Admiral Rossa, must have been pissed off. I hope that she used whatever power and influence she had in Starfleet to make Picard feel her pain.

Another thing that bothered me about Picard's decision was the speech that he gave to explain his decision. It was outrageous. He labelled himself, and by implication humans and Starfleet, as the criminals in this matter when in fact the Talarian was the criminal.

Picard twisted the situation around. He sort of blamed the victim for the crime. There was nothing wrong about wanting to show the boy his human roots and his humanity, and to try to convince the boy to stay. His speech was the wrong message to send to the Talarian in so many ways.

I'm uncomfortable about the Talorian saying he has the right to claim the child as the son of his enemy. Using that logic that Talorian could kill any humans in the galaxy and take their children as spoils of war.

I thought the colonists were killed in a massacre and not really "enemies" at all just victims.
Didn't other humans kills the Talorian's son? Not the boys parents.

While it seems the boy may have been better off with his adoptive father, he would always been an alien in that society - having to prove himself all the time.
 
The discussion is about the killing of Duras, for which the Klingons have considered the matter closed, but it is not closed where Starfleet is concerned. The reprimand is for the killing of Duras. Period. It is not something they allow. It is not something he should've done, & it IS something punishable, which because Picard values Worf, & accepts his admission of wrongdoing he chooses to punish him minimally with only a reprimand
This stuff about his only wrongdoing being about leaving the ship, & not about killing Duras is complete fan fabrication. Why would he refer to the Klingons considering the matter closed, if it was a simple post abandonment reprimand? That's got nothing to do with Klingons, & nothing to do with the discussion or the reprimand.
But continue the quote:

PICARD: Mister Worf, the Enterprise crew currently includes representatives from thirteen planets. They each have their individual beliefs and values and I respect them all. But they have all chosen to serve Starfleet. If anyone cannot perform his or her duty because of the demands of their society, they should resign. Do you wish to resign?
WORF: No, sir.

The matter of wanting to kill Duras is what caused Worf to break the rules and place his personal needs or desires, or his social obligations or expectations, ahead of Starfleet's goals or mission. Why bring up this stuff about respecting these other culture's member's individual beliefs unless it was to point out any beliefs that interfere with Starfleet's mission have to take a back seat? This isn't just about killing somebody. And the very idea Picard likes Worf and values him so he'll let "murder" slide or punish him minimally seems more the fan fiction there.

PICARD: Well, it's first-degree murder, but I like you, Mr. Worf, so I'll only give you a reprimand.

Nonsense.

I admit, there may be other ways to interpret the things done or said there, but I think mine fit the situation and explain it best. If I heard another I thought explained it better, I'd probably adopt and accept that. But I haven't. So if Starfleet felt it was murder, they wouldn't let it go with just a token slap on the wrist. And Picard never says you have a reprimand for killing Duras. The reprimand seems more about putting his cultural desires ahead of Starfleet's needs or expectations, hence the speech about anyone wanting to serve in Starfleet should be prepared to put their personal or cultural beliefs that run contrary to Starfleet's needs aside.

So the only thing Picard could get Worf on wasn't killing Duras, or murder, but leaving the ship without permission, perhaps using ship's resources (like a transporter) for personal errands without authorization, or the like, but mostly, it was because Worf put his own needs ahead of Starfleet's, and officers are not supposed to do that.

Why mention the fact the Klingons considered the matter closed? I think if Worf killed Duras on the Enterprise, then yeah, it would be murder, in Picard's jurisdiction, and he could not let the matter slide with so minor a punishment. But it happened on Klingon soil, under Klingon law and rules of conduct, and they were fine with it. Even Starfleet might have been fine with it. But Picard was not. He can't count on an officer who put his own shit ahead of the Federation's, so he pointed that out to Worf, explained it to him, and asked if Worf wanted to leave. The fact he said he didn't want to leave doesn't really mean he felt he was wrong - only that he should and probably does recognize what he did was not acceptable behavior for an officer. And the reprimand is there to remind him and alert others who have reason to read his record, what kind of a guy he probably is. The fact this marries up well with what happened later with Worf putting his wife's life ahead of the life of another and the whole mission, and the second reprimand, and how that likely means he'll never get a command of his own, all fits this theory, too.

But like I said, sure, there's more than one way to interpret those events.
 
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That it may actually describe the future, starting with global collapse due to limits to growth and other problems.
 
Against Cardassian military incursion? When? As far as I recall, the only time the Enterprise had tense dealings with the Cardies, up to then, was when they let some shady business slip by to keep the peace, by shutting down Ben Maxwell

Who said this IS his long term leadership strategy? Has it not occurred to anyone that this may all be his short term mission strategy (Which worked) & it's all he has time for?

What you're saying is that despite being hand selected for his relevant skills, despite being as prepared or more than any other crew member, despite handling things with decisiveness, & resulting success, because he didn't let his subordinates have more frequent free reign to do as they saw fit, he is a poor captain? That just doesn't bear out, because it's the same as saying he let his style or personal preferences interfere with the welfare of the mission, when all evidence suggests otherwise.

No one answers the important questions Why would a hand selected mission specialist be brought in & make unnecessary changes on a time critical mission? Why would anyone tasked with what he's been tasked with, do anything more than what was absolutely necessary to ensure success? What good does being bossy for bossiness sake benefit him here? It jeopardizes his potential for success
No one has said that. You were the one comparing the two. I don't think the situations are comparable at all, & it is still possible changes in systems, function & staffing could still be necessary in Jellico's Cardassian situation
Thank you for making my point for me. Jellico was tasked with making it a front line war vessel, in the likely event that the mission fail & the Federation is plunged into war right then... which, as you pointed out, it is NOT already tasked for.

He wasn't trying to start one. He was trying to avoid one. He shut down all the science departments & reassigned people to security, engineering & operations. Hell, that change might've easily fixed Riker's staffing problems with the shift rotation. It's never said that he DIDN'T evacuate civilians either. So this is the fine point of it. Is it absolutely necessary to pay "Lipservice" to every potential detail that a viewer might want to use in an argument against what is plain to see? Jellico got the job done, that he was put there specifically to do, & all he did was ruffle some feathers, that were bound to be ruffled under the circumstances anyhow
That doesn't make any sense though. If what Worf did by killing Duras wasn't wrong (while serving Starfleet, whether he was off the clock for the night or not) Then he SHOULD be allowed to do it again. That Picard is telling him he can't do it, is the same as telling him he shouldn't have. You don't reprimand somebody for something that is ok, as long as they don't do it again

Nah I still disagree. Jellico was a poor leader who made unnecessary changes in a bad way.
 
The idea of Jellico being good relies strongly on the highly competent Starfleet Admirals making the right decision. I won't comment further on that flight of fancy.
 
The idea of Jellico being good relies strongly on the highly competent Starfleet Admirals making the right decision. I won't comment further on that flight of fancy.
As shown, Starfleet is run and peopled with incompetents and idiots. Enterprise is the sole exception. (Possibly DS9 and Voyager. Possibly.)
 
But continue the quote.
Why? I only quoted the part that was relevant to the subject matter. The rest of the conversation, which you quoted, is still on the same subject. Picard never addresses any other subject. He only expounds on how he expects that subject to be handled & why. He elaborates

"The High Council seems to agree with you. They consider the matter to be closed. I do not" The "Matter"... which the High Council considers closed, is the killing of Duras. There is no other matter that they were considering. From that remark, it is clear, however, that it's not a closed subject as it applies to Picard & Starfleet. They are still addressing that matter, right then & there. It's the only matter they're addressing.

Picard never says you have a reprimand for killing Duras.
He did however say that he has a reprimand for not adhering Starfleet protocol as it applies to the subject at hand (Refer back to the 1st part of this post)

So the only thing Picard could get Worf on wasn't killing Duras, or murder, but leaving the ship without permission, perhaps using ship's resources (like a transporter) for personal errands without authorization, or the like,
But none of that is actually mentioned either. The subject they're discussing is the killing of Duras, & you are saying that somehow the reprimand is for some other unmentioned infractions. That's just imaginary

Well, it's first-degree murder, but I like you, Mr. Worf, so I'll only give you a reprimand.

Nonsense.
And I agree, which is why all this debate began with me saying Worf should be expelled from Starfleet, & that Picard was wrong for placing such a minor punishment on the violation. Frankly, it's Picard's fault that Worf still doesn't "get it" by the time he gets reamed for a similar infraction on DS9.

Picard is obviously given a lot of leeway with his officers & how they are punished, & he offered Worf a 2nd chance, on the understanding that he knows that it is an unacceptable act to kill people for personal or cultural reasons (Which is why he addressed those cultural reasons as being no excuse)

I think it's a bad choice by Picard, but there's no doubt what the choice he made was. The language is clear
 
With TNG I have many..

1.) Picard turning his back and leaving Gowron while he's being ambushed by Klingon ships. Don't give me that "we can't interfere" crap. He's the legitimate leader of the Klingon people and the Federation has a peace treaty with them. Not to mention Worf was on that ship.
2.) That episode in the last season with Paul Sorvino where Picard was willing to let an entire race of people die because "prime directive."
3.) QWho- Picard just lost over a dozen crew to the borg. He has weakened the ship and then decides to have a conference. Excuse me? This ship is trying to destroy you. You're WAY past the point of discussion or diplomacy.

4) Chain of Command-The whining of Geordi and Riker to Jellicos orders. Do your job and stop griping.
 
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