Kelvin Timeline all but confirmed

[Kemaiku]

I thought the NX-01 was retired before being refit to Columbia Class specs in the novels?

Nope, she was retrofitted in the second Romulan War novel, taking her out of the fight for some time. The novel doesn't specify the refit she was given, but Doug confirmed it was the Columbia configuration when he released all the original CGI work he'd done. The model he rendered was meant to have been used in some official capacity but it never was, after season 5 was cancelled and the novels choose not to use it on the cover.

It's been followed up by a model kit and the Eaglemoss special showing her that way made from the render.

She was retired months later when the war ended and Starfleet decides her space frame has taken too much of a beating from 10 years of active duty and so many fights. What they don't say is if she was at least re-christened the USS Enterprise NCC-01 before they do.

 

[Tuskin38]

it's implied Endeavour always was but it's not entirely clear.

Memory-Beta says the Endeavour is the last of the original NX-Classes, sources on that line listed as 'A Choice of Futures' and 'Beneath the Raptor's Wing'

 

[Kemaiku]

Memory-Beta says the Endeavour is the last of the original NX-Classes, sources on that line listed as 'A Choice of Futures' and 'Beneath the Raptor's Wing'

Ahh, okay. I suppose that made any work on her spaceframe easier than Enterprise.

 

[Mirror Mirror]

I just want to say, its nice this thread actually because neat recently are is addressing a neat subject, The NX. Refits or otherwise lol

 

[fireproof78]

And yet the Discovery and Shenzhou do have robot crewmembers, which kind of makes Data nothing special.

He was a "Soong type" Android. Also, Androids are nothing special in the Star Trek Universe, see Ruk, Andrea, Mudd's Planet, etc.

Also, there is a difference between a robot and an android, as well as a cyborg.

If at some point in the series it's abandoned and locked away in Starfleet's equivalent of Area 51 I can accept that the Voyager crew might have no idea such a project existed.

Top men only knew it existed.

The Shenzhou had no robotic crew. The Discovery has one, we see 5 styles of androids in trek, 3 in TOS. Androids are not unknown, cybernetic races are not unknown. What made data and the 4 or 5 others like him stand out was his type and the fact he was human built and not a culture or even a creation of a sociality, but a single person.

Exactly this.

 

[johnnybear]

Definitive proof Discovery isn't set in the Kelvin Timeline: "You made an incursion onto an enemy planet! You killed a Klingon patrol! Even if you got away without a trace, war is coming! And who's gonna lead us, YOU? If I'm not in charge, our entire way of life is decimated!" -Admiral Alexander Marcus, Star Trek Into Darkness

Not only that, earlier before Marcus reinstates Kirk's command, he says that the Klingons have taken potshots at them a half a dozen times. Not all out war. Ergo, Discovery can't be in the Kelvin Timeline

Not proof at all as the Kelvin timeline is virtually unknown to us where as TOS is! The Klingons and UFOP had a bad start in the beginning but apart from the odd skirmish or raid on planets near the border they never went to war in the original timeline! If they had of done then why were Kirk and Spock so shocked in Errand of Mercy at their guessing that negotiations had broken down? Even if you don't accept this then we can agree to disagree!
JB

 

[johnnybear]

Yes, it's in a Universe 10 years (well 9 now) earlier/younger than TOS.

Not that it bothers me because canon is up to each and everyone of us but it can't be!
The uniforms and technology are way ahead of TOS and there never was a Klingon conflict in the original series or before! What was so wrong with giving the crew a Pike style look of costume?
None of the later Treks especially DS9,ENT and DIS seem to have understood Roddenberry's version of a future free of conflict and peace! They seem to relish the war philosophy!
JB

 

[Michael]

… canon is up to each and everyone of us …

Which is expressly what canon is NOT.

 

[Tuskin38]

Not that it bothers me because canon is up to each and everyone of us but it can't be!

Canon is not decided by the viewer.

You can choose to ignore and accept things personally, but that doesn't change the canon.

 

[DigificWriter]

canon is up to each and everyone of us

 

[BillJ]

Maybe not "canon", but what each person accepts or rejects is up to that person. How they interpret material is not up to CBS.

 

[johnnybear]

Canon is not decided by the viewer.

You can choose to ignore and accept things personally, but that doesn't change the canon.

Maybe not but if you don't watch a later series or film then you can quite easily ignore it and pretend it never happened can't you!
JB

 

[XCV330]

Canon is whatever the franchise owners say it is. It gets murky, it definitely gets contradictory, and for the most part it is focused on narrative, not on visuals. It's a way of stamping a "this happened" on imaginary events so people can at least keep some kind of story line intact in a long ever-changing series of stories.

The series owners say this show is prime-timeline. That's basically the end of the discussion. I can argue that Shenzhou was really a giant space blimp and it popped off camera after the pods ejects, but that's not canon. I can even get other people to agree with me. I can maybe get some b-list actors formerly affiliated with previous shows to do a 15 minute fan production with me on "The Deflating of NCC-1227" and it will be heart rendering, and lovely and win some awards and maybe even a bigwig from CBS will casually remark about it. But it won't be canon.

Now I have a fan production to start up. If any of you have helium or mylar that you'd like to donate, please contact me.

 

[cultcross]

Maybe not but if you don't watch a later series or film then you can quite easily ignore it and pretend it never happened can't you!
JB

Absolutely, just as a reader can decide that the book of John is not a 'proper' gospel and they wish to ignore it. But that doesn't change the canon of works which form the Bible. To understand the meaning of the term it is usually worth referring back to its religious origin. The canon is simply the set of works considered 'official' or recognised by an authority. Individuals have no influence on that.

 

[Gonzo]

Absolutely, just as a reader can decide that the book of John is not a 'proper' gospel and they wish to ignore it. But that doesn't change the canon of works which form the Bible. To understand the meaning of the term it is usually worth referring back to its religious origin. The canon is simply the set of works considered 'official' or recognised by an authority. Individuals have no influence on that.

Yeah, look at what Disney did when they bought the rights to Star Wars, there are huge numbers of books written after the events of ROFJ yet all of them are no longer canon.

 

[BillJ]

Yeah, look at what Disney did when they bought the rights to Star Wars, there are huge numbers of books written after the events of ROFJ yet all of them are no longer canon.

They were never canon to begin with.

 

[johnnybear]

Or it can be like V-The Series is one reality and the remake another! You can accept the first one but you can ignore the second version!
JB

 

[Kemaiku]

Actually, Diana turns up in both, meaning they take place in the same universe somehow. They cancelled it before they revealed how.

 

[DigificWriter]

They were never canon to begin with.

They were, but their Canonicity didn't override that of the films or George Lucas' "word of God" statements.

What Lucasfilm did after George handed the reins over to Kathleen Kennedy and sold the company to Disney is to remove the messy 'tiered Canon' system that had existed before and replaced it with a simple and streamlined "unified mythos" approach in which, unless otherwise specified, everything that comes out is automatically Canonical by default and is therefore far less likely to be contradicted.

Actually, Diana turns up in both, meaning they take place in the same universe somehow. They cancelled it before they revealed how.

Same actress, totally different, albeit identically named, character.

 

[BillJ]

They were, but their Canonicity didn't override that of the films or George Lucas' "word of God" statements.

Then they weren't canon. "They're canon, except when they're not", makes no sense.