Voyager Season 5
- Thread starter Prax
- Start date
Since no one has volunteered to start it yet, let me quote myself from an earlier VOY Rewatch thread where Janeway was criticized for isolating herself from her crew:
NIGHT
After four years of constant fight (against your enemies and for your survival), here's Janeway's chance to reflect upon past events. Perhaps at the time of CARETAKER, Janeway's decision was rushed - well, not from where I'm standing but perhaps this is how she feels about it. Perhaps back then when she had to make a decision in the heat of the moment, when she didn't have the time to weigh up the consequences, it seemed like a good idea to try to save the Ocampan. Perhaps back then, Janeway related to the predicament of the Cartaker too much - she might even have been overwhelmed by the responsibility he was facing - and she wanted to do all she could both for the Ocampan and for a dying "man" whose only last wish was to find someone who could continue doing his work.
Now, four years later the void that they've entered gives her a chance to reflect on those decisions. Did she do the right thing? Would she do it again? Her ponderings lead her to come to the conclusion that she could have acted in a different way. That perhaps what she did was selfish and narrow-minded.
But was it really? I'm not sure. I think trying to save a whole planet at the expense of stranding 150 people in the Delta Quadrant is never selfish. But it's easy for me: I'm not the one who has to be confronted with the consequences of this decision. I am the one who sits down in front of his PC and watches how the person whose responsibility this is is trying to cope with its repercussions.
And the one who can see with his own very eyes that he should be grateful for not having been in Captain Janeway's place. It's she that has to see people feeling lonely on a daily basis, it's she that has to listen to Harry Kim's rants about how much he wants to go home and how difficult it is for his parents. It's she that sometimes (=often) sees a crew member's facial expression that says how (s)he wishes (s)he were at home now.
These are circumstances that might force you to reconsider ... that might force you even to go a little nuts if you are not strong enough psychologically. But Janeway's mind is crystal clear: she knows that even a few Borg cubes would be a good distraction in the middle of nowhere - something that is normally avoided at all costs. Obviously, Borg cubes could ensure the sanity of your mind and if they are not available, books will have to do. They are perhaps not as suitable as Borg cubes to make you vigilant but at least they prove to be a distraction of some kind.
Luckily for her, history repeats itself. And guess what, she is in a very similar situation: is she supposed to save aliens or is she supposed to save her ship? She's done the former thing already and we can see how it ended up for her emotionally. It's time to try out the alternative.
Or is it? Well, Janeway is still our Janeway and she knows better. Of course, she can't turn her back on a chance to save these creatures who asked for her help - but this time she'll do it in a way that she won't have to make sacrifices that are unfavourable for her crew. She is going to have the cake and eat it as well. So she comes up with a plan that seems a brilliant solution to her: she alone will atone for what she did years ago but she'll save her crew. No matter what the costs: this time, it can't be worse than her life if the worst comes to the worst. So she is determined to see it through.
Luckily for us she isn't prepared for the resourcefulness of her crew - and with this we get a brilliant episode ... For me, this is VOYAGER at its best.
NIGHT
After four years of constant fight (against your enemies and for your survival), here's Janeway's chance to reflect upon past events. Perhaps at the time of CARETAKER, Janeway's decision was rushed - well, not from where I'm standing but perhaps this is how she feels about it. Perhaps back then when she had to make a decision in the heat of the moment, when she didn't have the time to weigh up the consequences, it seemed like a good idea to try to save the Ocampan. Perhaps back then, Janeway related to the predicament of the Cartaker too much - she might even have been overwhelmed by the responsibility he was facing - and she wanted to do all she could both for the Ocampan and for a dying "man" whose only last wish was to find someone who could continue doing his work.
Now, four years later the void that they've entered gives her a chance to reflect on those decisions. Did she do the right thing? Would she do it again? Her ponderings lead her to come to the conclusion that she could have acted in a different way. That perhaps what she did was selfish and narrow-minded.
But was it really? I'm not sure. I think trying to save a whole planet at the expense of stranding 150 people in the Delta Quadrant is never selfish. But it's easy for me: I'm not the one who has to be confronted with the consequences of this decision. I am the one who sits down in front of his PC and watches how the person whose responsibility this is is trying to cope with its repercussions.
And the one who can see with his own very eyes that he should be grateful for not having been in Captain Janeway's place. It's she that has to see people feeling lonely on a daily basis, it's she that has to listen to Harry Kim's rants about how much he wants to go home and how difficult it is for his parents. It's she that sometimes (=often) sees a crew member's facial expression that says how (s)he wishes (s)he were at home now.
These are circumstances that might force you to reconsider ... that might force you even to go a little nuts if you are not strong enough psychologically. But Janeway's mind is crystal clear: she knows that even a few Borg cubes would be a good distraction in the middle of nowhere - something that is normally avoided at all costs. Obviously, Borg cubes could ensure the sanity of your mind and if they are not available, books will have to do. They are perhaps not as suitable as Borg cubes to make you vigilant but at least they prove to be a distraction of some kind.
Luckily for her, history repeats itself. And guess what, she is in a very similar situation: is she supposed to save aliens or is she supposed to save her ship? She's done the former thing already and we can see how it ended up for her emotionally. It's time to try out the alternative.
Or is it? Well, Janeway is still our Janeway and she knows better. Of course, she can't turn her back on a chance to save these creatures who asked for her help - but this time she'll do it in a way that she won't have to make sacrifices that are unfavourable for her crew. She is going to have the cake and eat it as well. So she comes up with a plan that seems a brilliant solution to her: she alone will atone for what she did years ago but she'll save her crew. No matter what the costs: this time, it can't be worse than her life if the worst comes to the worst. So she is determined to see it through.
Luckily for us she isn't prepared for the resourcefulness of her crew - and with this we get a brilliant episode ... For me, this is VOYAGER at its best.
Aaaaaaahhh, thanks Prax! I just watched episode #100, so I'll try to comment later from work...
Nice write-up on Night, TE... I agree with you and it was a strong episode and a good ep to kick off the 5th season. Janeway is a bomb-captain. The best imo. 
I most recently watched Timeless, which I thought was a very good ep and notable maybe since it's the 100th ep of the series. I like alterations in time, although they can get confusing in certain circumstances, though it was pretty straightforward (in a sense) in this particular ep. It's by far the best ep to feature Harry so far I think... I think I have a slightly better appreciation for Harry now, though why he didn't think to send a direct message to VOY after the coordinates to Seven failed is beyond me. Even in the throws of duress that's something he should have immediately thought of imo. And good to see Chak get some action (supposedly since we don't really see this, but its allusion). I like the overlap (I guess?) to TNG as well. Some of the subtleties in that area were probably lost on me since I haven't seen TNG though. Lol on Seven getting drunk... pffft. lightweight.
By far my fav ep so far this season (yeah, I've only seen 6 thus far) is Drone. It's one of my favorites of the whole series, to date, mainly because Seven is my fav character. It was a great ep for her and One was fantastic... sad ending, but yeah we all have to adapt to loss at one time or another. Aside from the fact that she's Borg I could be Seven of Nine... I have that much in common with the character, which is why she's my fav. Mostly her personality and general life experience (Borg aside), but also right down to her appearance (though I look different there some basic, strong similarities in my appearance, esp when I was that approximate age).
I've liked all the other eps so far this season... Extreme Risk was a rewatch for me, but it was just as good the 2nd time, In the Flesh was decent (though I was slightly let down more by the execution rather than content as I like species 8472 and thought they could have been flaunted more).... Once Upon a Time was pretty fluffy, but it was okay. I like Naomi and like Neelix more now than when the series started. That's an ep I might skip on rewatch of the series if I was short on time, but it was decent for what it was I guess.
I most recently watched Timeless, which I thought was a very good ep and notable maybe since it's the 100th ep of the series. I like alterations in time, although they can get confusing in certain circumstances, though it was pretty straightforward (in a sense) in this particular ep. It's by far the best ep to feature Harry so far I think... I think I have a slightly better appreciation for Harry now, though why he didn't think to send a direct message to VOY after the coordinates to Seven failed is beyond me. Even in the throws of duress that's something he should have immediately thought of imo. And good to see Chak get some action (supposedly since we don't really see this, but its allusion). I like the overlap (I guess?) to TNG as well. Some of the subtleties in that area were probably lost on me since I haven't seen TNG though. Lol on Seven getting drunk... pffft. lightweight.
By far my fav ep so far this season (yeah, I've only seen 6 thus far) is Drone. It's one of my favorites of the whole series, to date, mainly because Seven is my fav character. It was a great ep for her and One was fantastic... sad ending, but yeah we all have to adapt to loss at one time or another. Aside from the fact that she's Borg I could be Seven of Nine... I have that much in common with the character, which is why she's my fav. Mostly her personality and general life experience (Borg aside), but also right down to her appearance (though I look different there some basic, strong similarities in my appearance, esp when I was that approximate age).
I've liked all the other eps so far this season... Extreme Risk was a rewatch for me, but it was just as good the 2nd time, In the Flesh was decent (though I was slightly let down more by the execution rather than content as I like species 8472 and thought they could have been flaunted more).... Once Upon a Time was pretty fluffy, but it was okay. I like Naomi and like Neelix more now than when the series started. That's an ep I might skip on rewatch of the series if I was short on time, but it was decent for what it was I guess.
with species 8472 they didn't show up more because the CGI was too expensive. I would have loved to see more of them.Nice write-up on Night, TE... I agree with you and it was a strong episode and a good ep to kick off the 5th season. Janeway is a bomb-captain. The best imo.
I most recently watched Timeless, which I thought was a very good ep and notable maybe since it's the 100th ep of the series. I like alterations in time, although they can get confusing in certain circumstances, though it was pretty straightforward (in a sense) in this particular ep. It's by far the best ep to feature Harry so far I think... I think I have a slightly better appreciation for Harry now, though why he didn't think to send a direct message to VOY after the coordinates to Seven failed is beyond me. Even in the throws of duress that's something he should have immediately thought of imo. And good to see Chak get some action (supposedly since we don't really see this, but its allusion). I like the overlap (I guess?) to TNG as well. Some of the subtleties in that area were probably lost on me since I haven't seen TNG though. Lol on Seven getting drunk... pffft. lightweight.
By far my fav ep so far this season (yeah, I've only seen 6 thus far) is Drone. It's one of my favorites of the whole series, to date, mainly because Seven is my fav character. It was a great ep for her and One was fantastic... sad ending, but yeah we all have to adapt to loss at one time or another. Aside from the fact that she's Borg I could be Seven of Nine... I have that much in common with the character, which is why she's my fav. Mostly her personality and general life experience (Borg aside), but also right down to her appearance (though I look different there some basic, strong similarities in my appearance, esp when I was that approximate age).
I've liked all the other eps so far this season... Extreme Risk was a rewatch for me, but it was just as good the 2nd time, In the Flesh was decent (though I was slightly let down more by the execution rather than content as I like species 8472 and thought they could have been flaunted more).... Once Upon a Time was pretty fluffy, but it was okay. I like Naomi and like Neelix more now than when the series started. That's an ep I might skip on rewatch of the series if I was short on time, but it was decent for what it was I guess.
Ah, okay then... money. Blast.
Watched Infinite Regress (another great Seven ep imho- Ryan's acting chops are wonderful on fuller display) and Nothing Human since I last posted. Nothing Human I found quite thought-provoking... and I'm going to give it its own thread.
Two great episodes. Infinite Regress is pretty fun. Seven in all those personalities really shows how good Jeri Ryan is. My favorite was the Ferengi...is that some kind of insult about the size of my ears?
Yeah, that was great... and then Janeway practically dragging her out the door for "free" health care in sick bay, lol...
You know, production wise, "NOTHING HUMAN" is actually the 100th episode when splitting the pilot into 2 parts (which is indicated on the production codes), which us the last contribution of Jeri Taylor to the franchise.
Both that and "TIMELESS" are great episodes.
Both that and "TIMELESS" are great episodes.
Ah, thanks Farscape. I just looked at the wiki page, which said it was #100
Fun fact...Roxann Dawson said that Nothing Human was her least favorite episode because she felt like just a prop laying there and she hated that slug.
I can understand why she'd feel that way... it wasn't exactly the most challenging acting foray. I wonder if they took the general idea for the slug-alien from Alien.
Edit: also it's funny how some actors are instantly recognizable, even despite gobs of alien makeup (i.e. Willie Garson).
Watched 30 Days and liked it... it was cool that Beltran came up for the idea of inserting the scenes of Paris in the brig (hence the name)...
Edit: also it's funny how some actors are instantly recognizable, even despite gobs of alien makeup (i.e. Willie Garson).
Watched 30 Days and liked it... it was cool that Beltran came up for the idea of inserting the scenes of Paris in the brig (hence the name)...
Wow. Counterpoint may very well be my favorite Voyager episode so far... that was impressive.
After the events in "The Gift", I was so annoyed that I stopped watching Voyager for two years, only watching my VHS tapes from seasons 1-3.
But later on I decided to give the series a new chance so I started to borrow VHS tapes from a shop near my home which was renting out VHS tapes for a decent sum of money, completely legal business I assure.
In fact, it was the same shop where I once started to borrow VHS tapes with Voyager episodes, some months before my local station started to air them.
Anyway, since I wanted to catch up with the schedule of my station which was about to start airing season 6, I had to watch a lot of Voyager in a short time so I did actually watch 4-6 episodes every week. However, I wasn't that impressed by the episodes because something important was missing and the over-focus on Seven did annoy me a lot at that time.
But then it came, the episode which gave me a new favorite. The episode was "Once Upon A Time" and the favorite was:
Flotter!
At that point, I could clearly feel how the old TOS fans felt when they watched "The Man Trap" and saw Kirk, Spock, McCoy and the others for the first time. My immediate impression was that here we have a character who finally can turn Voyager into the series it was supposed to be from the beginning. Such incredible hero materiel, I thought. For a moment I could actually forget that Kes had been kicked out.
I started to imagine possible upcoming scenarios in which Flotter would save the day for the crew and the ship. I could see that The Doctor would have to give his mobile emitter to Flotter due to Flotter's importance for the ship. I could see Flotter being able to put out all fires on the ship after an attack and I could see Flotter in charge of every away team on every dangerous mission. Who knows, Flotter might end up as the captain of the ship as well, I thought.
And then-nothing.
Flotter never showed up in any episode again and my new-found enthusiasm started to fade more and more. I ended up more and less going through the motions just for the sake of watching the series until I was finally insulted by a horrible episode in season 6. But more of that another time.
I still wonder if Flotter wouldn't have been the shot in the arm the series needed and I still think of possible ways to give Flotter the credit he truly deserves. But right now I just don't have time right now to start another project.
ut there are still moments of happiness and memories. Like every time I watch a re-run of CSI and the character David Hodges, played by actor Wallace Langham shows up. Then I stand up in front of the TV and exclaims "Flotter!" with a loud and happy voice!
Oh, what a waste.
But later on I decided to give the series a new chance so I started to borrow VHS tapes from a shop near my home which was renting out VHS tapes for a decent sum of money, completely legal business I assure.
In fact, it was the same shop where I once started to borrow VHS tapes with Voyager episodes, some months before my local station started to air them.
Anyway, since I wanted to catch up with the schedule of my station which was about to start airing season 6, I had to watch a lot of Voyager in a short time so I did actually watch 4-6 episodes every week. However, I wasn't that impressed by the episodes because something important was missing and the over-focus on Seven did annoy me a lot at that time.
But then it came, the episode which gave me a new favorite. The episode was "Once Upon A Time" and the favorite was:
Flotter!
At that point, I could clearly feel how the old TOS fans felt when they watched "The Man Trap" and saw Kirk, Spock, McCoy and the others for the first time. My immediate impression was that here we have a character who finally can turn Voyager into the series it was supposed to be from the beginning. Such incredible hero materiel, I thought. For a moment I could actually forget that Kes had been kicked out.
I started to imagine possible upcoming scenarios in which Flotter would save the day for the crew and the ship. I could see that The Doctor would have to give his mobile emitter to Flotter due to Flotter's importance for the ship. I could see Flotter being able to put out all fires on the ship after an attack and I could see Flotter in charge of every away team on every dangerous mission. Who knows, Flotter might end up as the captain of the ship as well, I thought.
And then-nothing.
Flotter never showed up in any episode again and my new-found enthusiasm started to fade more and more. I ended up more and less going through the motions just for the sake of watching the series until I was finally insulted by a horrible episode in season 6. But more of that another time.
I still wonder if Flotter wouldn't have been the shot in the arm the series needed and I still think of possible ways to give Flotter the credit he truly deserves. But right now I just don't have time right now to start another project.
ut there are still moments of happiness and memories. Like every time I watch a re-run of CSI and the character David Hodges, played by actor Wallace Langham shows up. Then I stand up in front of the TV and exclaims "Flotter!" with a loud and happy voice!
Oh, what a waste.
@Lynx Well, I'm glad you liked Flotter... I sort of (in a mildly similar way I suppose) feel that way about Kashyk in Counterpoint. At least as a recurring character, he would be excellent. I disagree that Seven is taking up an inordinate amount of airtime though. That seems to be a common sentiment among Trek fans, but I don't see it yet. Maybe it'll be more pronounced in seasons 6-7?
Anyway, I loved Counterpoint so much that I rewatched it last night. It's definitely my favorite episode so far, beating out even Scorpion. There are many nuances in this ep, and I noticed stuff I didn't the first time, e.g. when Janeway says to Kashyk, "...you know the way to my ready room" the 2nd time he approaches Voyager, and as she leaves the bridge Chakotay gives this subtle look towards her (which, par for the course, she doesn't even notice). Plus all the psychological twists and turns between Janeway and Kash are right up my alley; this aspect was written well and both actors played it well. They had a lot of chemistry on screen (way more so than Janeway and Chak ever have up to this point, imho). Turot was also an interesting, little cat, and his makeup was great.
Stellar episode all the way around....
Anyway, I loved Counterpoint so much that I rewatched it last night. It's definitely my favorite episode so far, beating out even Scorpion. There are many nuances in this ep, and I noticed stuff I didn't the first time, e.g. when Janeway says to Kashyk, "...you know the way to my ready room" the 2nd time he approaches Voyager, and as she leaves the bridge Chakotay gives this subtle look towards her (which, par for the course, she doesn't even notice). Plus all the psychological twists and turns between Janeway and Kash are right up my alley; this aspect was written well and both actors played it well. They had a lot of chemistry on screen (way more so than Janeway and Chak ever have up to this point, imho). Turot was also an interesting, little cat, and his makeup was great.
Stellar episode all the way around....
Yes, of course... I thought of you when that character was introduced actually. Hopefully you're not also a man of "few pleasures"...
I have to be honest with you.
When I first watched "Once Upon A Time", I actually found it rather boring. In fact, I watched it one evening together with three other episodes on VHS and it was like "oh yes, may it end soon so I can move on to the next episode".
I haven't watched the episode since that firts time in 2001 and in recent years I actually forgot Flotter and the whole episode until Flotter's name came up in some poll on this forum. Then I suddenly remembered the character and the episode. With my twisted sense of humor, I decided to make some fun out of it by pretending that Flotter became my all-time favorite character after Kes was dumped.
But I have nothing against Flotter. A rather funny looking holodeck character actually.
And maybe he could be used in some story or so. Why not a story where something happens to the holodec emitters on the ship where Flotter and The Doctor switches places with The Doctor as a fairy tale holodec character and Flotter as the ship's doctor suddenly showing up on the bridge in an emergency situation. It could be fun actually.
And the thing with me saying "Flotter" everytime Wallace Langham shows up in CSI is actually true, a habit I started with ever since Flotter and the episode reappeared in my memory!
Maybe I should have named myself Flotter instead of Lynx?
A little late for that now since Lynx has become sort of a celebrity here!
