Why does Midnight's Edge have such a hate boner for Discovery?

[Ensign Ogahd Ahmganadai]

What bothers me the most about Midnight's Sludge is how many followers they have who literally believe everything they say.

And they attack anyone who shows even cautious optimism for Discovery as a "paid CBS shill", as if that's the only way anyone could possibly like what they've seen. Hell, I wish I was a paid shill. I could use the money.

 

[PlainSimpleJoel]

I'm reading the comments for his latest video, and just rolling my eyes. It seems many of them are complaining about how the Klingons are now (well according to Midnight Edge). Seems many are believing him.

 

[phantom8019]

I don’t get the people who have made it their agenda to slam Discovery before it arrives.

I love Star Trek but I am not a blind-faith Trekkie. I don’t automatically eat whatever the studio feeds me. For example, I really disliked Enterprise. I gave that show numerous chances but could not accept it. That being said, I do not try to convince others to hate it or slam the show at every opportunity. I have friends who like Enterprise and instead of starting a war with them about why I think it sucks and they don’t, I ask them why they like it. Perhaps there is something I missed about it. You see, I really want to like Enterprise. But I just don’t. That is very different from wanting to hate something.

To put it another way, I don’t like cabbage. If I started posting about how terrible cabbage is and that no one should eat cabbage and it’s an outrage that it even exists, you would (rightfully) think there was something wrong with me. OK, I don’t like it. That is nice. Why do I feel the need to broadcast my views and influence others?

Fandom is like politics now, complete with the lies, the purity tests, and endless circular debating. It’s disgusting. All this noise and drama over something that is supposed to be uplifting and entertaining.

Lastly, consider the outrage of some “fans” when TNG and DS9 premiered. Now both shows are universally seen as the crown jewels of Trek. I know people who dismissed DS9 20+ years ago but love it now. How about the fact that TNG (arguably) took 2 years to become a decent show? The true fans stayed with it. That is amazing. Nowadays people would bail after episode 2, and the show would get cancelled after episode 4 and we would never have gotten The Best of Both Worlds, The Inner Light, Cause and Effect, The Offspring, etc., etc., etc.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Midnight's what?

 

[Jayson1]

Star Trek is different things to different people. I respect that we won’t always agree with everyone’s opinion on what this means but I am so perplexed by this attitude of “if you don’t agree with me, you’re not a True Star Trek fan.” It’s not just the Fitz brigade, which is why these Midnight’s Edge videos are so dangerous. I doubt there’s any real truth to this, but there are “several” posters on the Disqus comments at TrekCore who suggest there’s basically a secret cabal of posters here at TrekBBS who have apparently been “here” since the beginning (not sure what exactly the “here” implies) and have made so many sweeping declarations for fandom... via PM. If ever it comes that the Fitz/Midnight’s Edge/“secret cabal” viewpoint becomes anything less than a vocal minority? Well, I’m not sure I’ll want to be a real Star Trek fan any longer.

I don't see how it is any more dangerous than believing the Moon Landings were fake or that the earth is flat. Having wild conspiracies might make you paranoid but it doesn't make you a bad person. Especially when you factor in that I bet everyone has at least one theory they believe in that can't be proven wrong beyond doubt. Me I think JFK,Martin Luther KIng and Bobby Kennedy were political assignated I just don't know by who. I also think Trump is owned by Russia because of all the money they have given him. To me having tv show conspiracies aren't much different and kind of fun also because we all want to be in the inside and know what is going on and thus we take what little info we have and form opinions on them.

Jason

 

[StarMan]

Midnight's what?

Ditto.

Like any rational person, I'll form an opinion once I've actually seen it. I have no interest in Midnight whatever, but it seems pretty sad to bash a show that hasn't even aired yet.

 

[Campe]

I don't see how it is any more dangerous than believing the Moon Landings were fake or that the earth is flat. Having wild conspiracies might make you paranoid but it doesn't make you a bad person. Especially when you factor in that I bet everyone has at least one theory they believe in that can't be proven wrong beyond doubt. Me I think JFK,Martin Luther KIng and Bobby Kennedy were political assignated I just don't know by who. I also think Trump is owned by Russia because of all the money they have given him. To me having tv show conspiracies aren't much different and kind of fun also because we all want to be in the inside and know what is going on and thus we take what little info we have and form opinions on them.

Perhaps “dangerous” is the wrong word. Regardless, it’s not the conspiracy theories themselves. It’s the attitudes around them that are problematic. You can believe whatever you want. Being all high and mighty and suggesting that anyone who doesn’t agree with you about those opinions is completely and utterly wrong? That’s where the problem comes in. Attitudes like that tend to tear people apart. Especially a fandom where one of the underlying principles is bringing people together. Hell, this attitude is a big reason the United States is so divided right now.

Midnight’s Edge does nothing less than propagate those negative attitudes, empowers people who share them and normalizes the behavior. And when asked to produce any verifiable evidence to prove their points outside of an uncited YouTube video? They will exacerbate the situation by either attacking people, telling people that video should be enough or just blocking the people who won’t agree with their interpretation.

You can find conspiracy theories fun, if you want to, Jason. That’s absolutely your prerogative. I find the behavior I’ve described as obnoxious.

 

[Jayson1]

Perhaps “dangerous” is the wrong word. Regardless, it’s not the conspiracy theories themselves. It’s the attitudes around them that are problematic. You can believe whatever you want. Being all high and mighty and suggesting that anyone who doesn’t agree with you about those opinions is completely and utterly wrong? That’s where the problem comes in. Attitudes like that tend to tear people apart. Especially a fandom where one of the underlying principles is bringing people together. Hell, this attitude is a big reason the United States is so divided right now.

Midnight’s Edge does nothing less than propagate those negative attitudes, empowers people who share them and normalizes the behavior. And when asked to produce any verifiable evidence to prove their points outside of an uncited YouTube video? They will exacerbate the situation by either attacking people, telling people that video should be enough or just blocking the people who won’t agree with their interpretation.

You can find that fun, if you want to, Jason. That’s absolutely your prerogative. I find that behavior obnoxious. I believe in facts. Not conspiracy theories.

I don't like people who are uncivil to others either for having different opinions but i'm not sure what can be done. It's basically overtaken the internet and I guess the real world as well nowdays. Granted I do think their is some differences though in that not all bickering is bad, You can have fun bickering and then their is the mean kind were people just want to act like assholes to others. Usually if someone is mean to me I usually try and not let it show even if it hurts my feelings so I usually respond with humor instead of a rant.

Jason

 

[Vger23]

I don’t get the people who have made it their agenda to slam Discovery before it arrives.

I love Star Trek but I am not a blind-faith Trekkie. I don’t automatically eat whatever the studio feeds me. For example, I really disliked Enterprise. I gave that show numerous chances but could not accept it. That being said, I do not try to convince others to hate it or slam the show at every opportunity. I have friends who like Enterprise and instead of starting a war with them about why I think it sucks and they don’t, I ask them why they like it. Perhaps there is something I missed about it. You see, I really want to like Enterprise. But I just don’t. That is very different from wanting to hate something.

To put it another way, I don’t like cabbage. If I started posting about how terrible cabbage is and that no one should eat cabbage and it’s an outrage that it even exists, you would (rightfully) think there was something wrong with me. OK, I don’t like it. That is nice. Why do I feel the need to broadcast my views and influence others?

Fandom is like politics now, complete with the lies, the purity tests, and endless circular debating. It’s disgusting. All this noise and drama over something that is supposed to be uplifting and entertaining.

Lastly, consider the outrage of some “fans” when TNG and DS9 premiered. Now both shows are universally seen as the crown jewels of Trek. I know people who dismissed DS9 20+ years ago but love it now. How about the fact that TNG (arguably) took 2 years to become a decent show? The true fans stayed with it. That is amazing. Nowadays people would bail after episode 2, and the show would get cancelled after episode 4 and we would never have gotten The Best of Both Worlds, The Inner Light, Cause and Effect, The Offspring, etc., etc., etc.

It's massive selfishness/ self interest.

They simply (and mistakenly) believe that the quicker a version they don't want fails...the quicker a version they do want will get made. And so they will attack and badmouth with vigor

It's your Post-Nemesis "not sunshiny and philosophical enough" crowd.

Everyone's been hating on Star Trek changes since 1979. It's boring at this point.

"Move along, nothing to see here"

 

[Campe]

I don't like people who are uncivil to others either for having different opinions but i'm not sure what can be done. It's basically overtaken the internet and I guess the real world as well nowdays. Granted I do think their is some differences though in that not all bickering is bad, You can have fun bickering and then their is the mean kind were people just want to act like assholes to others. Usually if someone is mean to me I usually try and not let it show even if it hurts my feelings so I usually respond with humor instead of a rant.

Again, disagreement is fine. And yeah, you’re always going to have some bickering. That’s cool. The only place I think we can really stop this is to just be respectful to one another. It’s not easy but as long as we try...

 

[Mudd]

There is a secret FB group that closely monitors the rantings of one para mobius, but we don't speak of it.

Oops.

 

[Jayson1]

Again, disagreement is fine. And yeah, you’re always going to have some bickering. That’s cool. The only place I think we can really stop this is to just be respectful to one another. It’s not easy but as long as we try...

Which brings up the question of what does one do to try and change things. How does one get another human being to be civil? At some point in any conflict someone has to either forgive the person or not respond in kind. For me I can't stress it enough is I think humor is the only way to heal the world. It makes any criticism seem less mean and when you can make fun of yourself it lets others see that you don't value yourself as somehow being special or better than anyone else.

Also I think people would not be so mean if everyone didn't see each other as selfish assholes who only care about themselves and their ego or pride. When you do that you can establish some trust even if the person doesn't share your opinions or even has some opinions that can be kind of bad. See it as a character flaw instead of a example as to why the person is inhuman piece of crap. Granted some people do cross the line were it's impossible to do that, such as when they try to do physical harm to others but with others you can at least learn to be somewhat civil with them even if you would never be friends with them.

Jason

 

[Campe]

Which brings up the question of what does one do to try and change things. How does one get another human being to be civil? At some point in any conflict someone has to either forgive the person or not respond in kind. For me I can't stress it enough is I think humor is the only way to heal the world. It makes any criticism seem less mean and when you can make fun of yourself it lets others see that you don't value yourself as somehow being special or better than anyone else.

Also I think people would not be so mean if everyone didn't see each other as selfish assholes who only care about themselves and their ego or pride. When you do that you can establish some trust even if the person doesn't share your opinions or even has some opinions that can be kind of bad. See it as a character flaw instead of a example as to why the person is inhuman piece of crap. Granted some people do cross the line were it's impossible to do that, such as when they try to do physical harm to others but with others you can at least learn to be somewhat civil with them even if you would never be friends with them

To not get into too many personal details, I’ve struggled with anxiety around not always having things the way I want, that includes the behavior of others. I’ve learned you can’t change other people. Only how you react to them. Humor is a great way I’ve discovered to deal with that anxiety. Also, just trying to talk and understand others’ perspective. Like I suggested above, it’s not always easy. But we continue to try.

 

[fireproof78]

Which brings up the question of what does one do to try and change things. How does one get another human being to be civil? At some point in any conflict someone has to either forgive the person or not respond in kind. For me I can't stress it enough is I think humor is the only way to heal the world. It makes any criticism seem less mean and when you can make fun of yourself it lets others see that you don't value yourself as somehow being special or better than anyone else.

Also I think people would not be so mean if everyone didn't see each other as selfish assholes who only care about themselves and their ego or pride. When you do that you can establish some trust even if the person doesn't share your opinions or even has some opinions that can be kind of bad. See it as a character flaw instead of a example as to why the person is inhuman piece of crap. Granted some people do cross the line were it's impossible to do that, such as when they try to do physical harm to others but with others you can at least learn to be somewhat civil with them even if you would never be friends with them.

Jason

The true difficulty is the demumanization process of the Internet. @Jayson1 isn't a human-they are the text on the screen an an avatar that I have to squint at in order to make sense. Just reading that sentence, you probably couldn't tell if I like you or not. In fact, read with no emotion it might sound downright insulting.

So, I don't think its a matter of people seeing others as "selfish assholes" but simply seeing them as, well, people, rather than avatars.

That said, where to start? Always with common ground. There are plenty of individuals, even on here, that I don't agree with. But, I can find common ground of things that are enjoyable, i.e visuals, stories or characters in Star Trek.

I'm a firm believer that all people can find common ground on something and that's the place to start.

 

[Campe]

The true difficulty is the demumanization process of the Internet. @Jayson1 isn't a human-they are the text on the screen an an avatar that I have to squint at in order to make sense. Just reading that sentence, you probably couldn't tell if I like you or not. In fact, read with no emotion it might sound downright insulting.

So, I don't think its a matter of people seeing others as "selfish assholes" but simply seeing them as, well, people, rather than avatars.

That said, where to start? Always with common ground. There are plenty of individuals, even on here, that I don't agree with. But, I can find common ground of things that are enjoyable, i.e visuals, stories or characters in Star Trek.

I'm a firm believer that all people can find common ground on something and that's the place to start.

We also, because of that sense of each other as avatars, tend to say things in such a way that we wouldn’t in person. We need to remember that there are people with feelings behind the words that are typed and treat them the same way we would want to be treated. Common ground, listening to one another, humor, treating others the way we want to be treated — all perfect examples of how we should act on the interwebs.

 

[Woulfe]

Does the Cabal pay better then the fandom ? ;-) If so count me in too... ( tongue planted firmly in cheek )

 

[Campe]

Does the Cabal pay better then the fandom ? ;-) If so count me in too... ( tongue planted firmly in cheek )

I’m still waiting for my fat check from Bad Robot, Paramount, CBS, or whoever the cabal is blaming for the world’s problems these days.

 

[Jayson1]

To not get into too many personal details, I’ve struggled with anxiety around not always having things the way I want, that includes the behavior of others. I’ve learned you can’t change other people. Only how you react to them. Humor is a great way I’ve discovered to deal with that anxiety. Also, just trying to talk and understand others’ perspective. Like I suggested above, it’s not always easy. But we continue to try.

That seems a good way to go. Plus I think it doesn't hurt to even tell someone that they hurt your feelings if they did that which is something I should try more often myself though for some reason I don't really have many enemies. I think I might annoy some people at times but i'm not sure if that is the same thing.

Granted in my own personal life I think I have only hated one person and that was my stepdad. The guy who use to hit my mom and is a big reason why I isolated myself so much as a child and would hardly leave my room. When he hung himself in a mental hospital, same one I would be in at times myself because of panic attacks I was actually happy. Which makes me feel a little guilty especially since his death impacted my sisters lives but I can't say part me still is glad he is gone.

Jason

 

[Jayson1]

The true difficulty is the demumanization process of the Internet. @Jayson1 isn't a human-they are the text on the screen an an avatar that I have to squint at in order to make sense. Just reading that sentence, you probably couldn't tell if I like you or not. In fact, read with no emotion it might sound downright insulting.

So, I don't think its a matter of people seeing others as "selfish assholes" but simply seeing them as, well, people, rather than avatars.

That said, where to start? Always with common ground. There are plenty of individuals, even on here, that I don't agree with. But, I can find common ground of things that are enjoyable, i.e visuals, stories or characters in Star Trek.

I'm a firm believer that all people can find common ground on something and that's the place to start.

I agree but without trust I think many people with a lack of knowledge will sometimes see those words where you can't see the context and asume the worst instead of giving people the benefit of the doubt that they might be a good person behind those words or even a complex person who has good and bad traits.

As for common ground I think to me that is humor,tv and music. Also I have always like the idea that avators were replaced with real photo's of the people, It's something I want to do soon as I can get photo's of myself on the computer. I think it's hard to hate a person your talking to when you see their face.

Jason

 

[fireproof78]

I agree but without trust I think many people with a lack of knowledge will sometimes see those words where you can't see the context and asume the worst instead of giving people the benefit of the doubt that they might be a good person behind those words or even a complex person who has good and bad traits.

As for common ground I think to me that is humor,tv and music. Also I have always like the idea that avators were replaced with real photo's of the people, It's something I want to do soon as I can get photo's of myself on the computer. I think it's hard to hate a person your talking to when you see their face.

Jason

I think it just takes a reminder of the human on the other side of the machine, as well as the fact that we really wouldn't say the things we post online in real life, face to face. So, the avatar picture of a real person might help.