Star Wars Books Thread

[Reverend]

The Audible preview of 'A Certain Point of View' is out, and reveals something interesting

Spoiler

Yoda wanted to train Leia, not Luke

For a while now I'd already assumed as much just going by what was said in tESB. I mean how else does one account for his initial reticence and literally the first thing he says once Luke takes off?
Nice to have it confirmed though.

 

[kirk55555]

The Audible preview of 'A Certain Point of View' is out, and reveals something interesting

Spoiler

Yoda wanted to train Leia, not Luke

That is so terrible but hilarious that I'm more amused then infuriated.

Well, that book is joining Catalyst in the "SW books I won't read even if I was paid" category. I swear, the next time someone complains about a supposedly bad old EU book I'm just going to collapse laughing.

 

[fireproof78]

Anything with the Vong is 10x worse than the current production.

 

[Tuskin38]

That is so terrible but hilarious that I'm more amused then infuriated.

Well, that book is joining Catalyst in the "SW books I won't read even if I was paid" category. I swear, the next time someone complains about a supposedly bad old EU book I'm just going to collapse laughing.

This is 100 times better then most of the shit in the EU.

Spoiler

The reasons why Yoda wanted to train Leia, is she had been more active in Galactic Affairs then Luke was, she had more drive then Luke, and she was already fighting the Empire.

All Luke wanted to do was get off Tatooine, he really didn't care that much about the state of the galaxy.

Plus we know they always considered Leia to be an alternative to Luke, it was in the dialogue of ESB.

That book I mentioned is a collection of stories, that isn't the only story in the book. It has multiple authors.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Reverend]

^As I said, I've felt for a while now that this was most likely the intent when making tESB. Though really speaking at the time it probably actually in reference to another character whom Lucas had in mind for his version of the ST. Still, it works out perfectly fine as is.

 

[kirk55555]

This is 100 times better then most of the shit in the EU.

Spoiler

The reasons why Yoda wanted to train Leia, is she had been more active in Galactic Affairs then Luke was, she had more drive then Luke, and she was already fighting the Empire.

All Luke wanted to do was get off Tatooine, he really didn't care that much about the state of the galaxy.

Plus we know they always considered Leia to be an alternative to Luke, it was in the dialogue of ESB.

That book I mentioned is a collection of stories, that isn't the only story in the book. It has multiple authors.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Well, since the vast majority of the old EU was good to great, this is far from even the quality of the average old EU book. As for those reasons, they're all stupid, and don't make much sense. When it comes to the book, its a bad idea (having 40 random people shit out 40 stories on the cheap, if they want a charity book they should have hired a few good writers not 40 people who were willing to crap out a quick story for free) and if that Yoda story is in it that means the book had absolutely no standards and is probably just filled with garbage.

 

[Tuskin38]

You are so god damn insufferable.

I'm done. (again)

 

[fireproof78]

Well, since the vast majority of the old EU was good to great, this is far from even the quality of the average old EU book. As for those reasons, they're all stupid, and don't make much sense. When it comes to the book, its a bad idea (having 40 random people shit out 40 stories on the cheap, if they want a charity book they should have hired a few good writers not 40 people who were willing to crap out a quick story for free) and if that Yoda story is in it that means the book had absolutely no standards and is probably just filled with garbage.

This does not track at all as a logical statement. I've read plenty of anthology stories, with a mix of stories that were decent among others that were less so.

Secondly, the average EU book was just that-average. It wasn't quality writing, or consistently written, especially as the Solo children got older. And, as I mentioned, the Vong were, unfortunately, such overpowered villains that they could engender no sympathy from me as a reader. That doesn't make for a compelling villain, save for as a force of evil to be destroyed. They even tried to engender sympathy for Palpatine who was trying to protect from the Vong.

Finally, I'll never understand the categorical dismissal of entire bodies of work. That's like I saying I'll never like Liam Neeson film again because I didn't like "Kinsey."

 

[kirk55555]

This does not track at all as a logical statement. I've read plenty of anthology stories, with a mix of stories that were decent among others that were less so.

Except the Yoda story shows how much care is being taken in making the anthology, in this case no care and any old crap will be printed for no obvious reason.

Secondly, the average EU book was just that-average. It wasn't quality writing, or consistently written, especially as the Solo children got older. And, as I mentioned, the Vong were, unfortunately, such overpowered villains that they could engender no sympathy from me as a reader. That doesn't make for a compelling villain, save for as a force of evil to be destroyed. They even tried to engender sympathy for Palpatine who was trying to protect from the Vong.

I totally disagree. The old EU was great. There were some mediocre and bad books, which is to be expected when there are so many, but the vast majority are at least good and most are great to amazing, at least in my opinion. The best tie-in fiction and it will always be my preferred version of SW, even though I still really like Episode VII and RO and I'm sure I'll keep liking the new movies.

 

[fireproof78]

Except the Yoda story shows how much care is being taken in making the anthology, in this case no care and any old crap will be printed for no obvious reason.

As opposed to the various anthologies which explained every little thing in Legends? Sorry, some of it was just bad, dumb, or inserted vampires, random gods and odd spiritual beliefs to the galaxy.

I totally disagree. The old EU was great. There were some mediocre and bad books, which is to be expected when there are so many, but the vast majority are at least good and most are great to amazing, at least in my opinion. The best tie-in fiction and it will always be my preferred version of SW, even though I still really like Episode VII and RO and I'm sure I'll keep liking the new movies.

Sorry, agree to disagree, which is fine. Legends EU hasn't gone anywhere. But, I find way more enjoyment in the stories and world building in the new stuff, than the randomness of the old EU.

 

[Sparkle Fabulosa]

I'm halfway through Leia but I felt I needed a break, so I decided to finish the last three chapters of Lost Stars.

That ending was intense! I wish there had been an epilogue. Oh well. Overall my eyes were glued to the pages so I consider that a good thing. I'm glad I went back and finished.

 

[JD]

The new Yoda reveal makes perfect sense to me.

Spoiler: the spoiler being discussed up thread

Given where they started out, Leia really does seem like a much more obvious choice. Not only is she much more experienced in galactic affairs, and already fighting the Empire, but her father worked with Yoda during the Clone Wars.

Well, since the vast majority of the old EU was good to great, this is far from even the quality of the average old EU book. As for those reasons, they're all stupid, and don't make much sense. When it comes to the book, its a bad idea (having 40 random people shit out 40 stories on the cheap, if they want a charity book they should have hired a few good writers not 40 people who were willing to crap out a quick story for free) and if that Yoda story is in it that means the book had absolutely no standards and is probably just filled with garbage.

These aren't 40 random people, they are 40 of the most popular writers in SFF right now.

Except the Yoda story shows how much care is being taken in making the anthology, in this case no care and any old crap will be printed for no obvious reason.



I totally disagree. The old EU was great. There were some mediocre and bad books, which is to be expected when there are so many, but the vast majority are at least good and most are great to amazing, at least in my opinion. The best tie-in fiction and it will always be my preferred version of SW, even though I still really like Episode VII and RO and I'm sure I'll keep liking the new movies.

OK, I like the EU books I've read, but they're not even close to the best tie-in fiction out there. The vast majority of Trek books I've read are much, much better than the majority of SW books I've read. While I did enjoy the first 5 NJO books, by that point the books and comics had spun so far off into their own thing that they barely even related back to the movies, and had completely lost the feel of the movies. The Star Trek books on the hand have managed to expand way beyond the on screen stuff, but still relate things back to the source material, and have continued to tell stories that can fit right in with what the screen material did. Now, I understand that Trek has several hundred times more material to build of off, but there are still ways the Star Wars Legends EU could have continued on without losing what makes Star Wars what it is. So far the new canon has done a much better job sticking to that IMO.

 

[kirk55555]

The new Yoda reveal makes perfect sense to me.

Spoiler: the spoiler being discussed up thread

Given where they started out, Leia really does seem like a much more obvious choice. Not only is she much more experienced in galactic affairs, and already fighting the Empire, but her father worked with Yoda during the Clone Wars.

These aren't 40 random people, they are 40 of the most popular writers in SFF right now.

The new Yoda reveal is bad fanfiction and I'll treat it as such. As for the book, Its mostly people who I've never heard of, along a few people who have only written SW books for literally kindergartners, the two worst new canon writers (Claudia Grey and Chuck Wendig) and Paul Dini and Wil wheaton for some unknown reason. I mean, there are a few good writers I suppose. Dini along with comic writers Charles Soule and Kieron Gillen might have good stories, same with the writers of Lords of the Sith and Kenobi. But its, at my count, about 7-8 good writers, a few absolutely terrible ones, a lot of mediocrity and a bunch of random people with little to no business writing a SW book.

OK, I like the EU books I've read, but they're not even close to the best tie-in fiction out there. The vast majority of Trek books I've read are much, much better than the majority of SW books I've read. While I did enjoy the first 5 NJO books, by that point the books and comics had spun so far off into their own thing that they barely even related back to the movies, and had completely lost the feel of the movies. The Star Trek books on the hand have managed to expand way beyond the on screen stuff, but still relate things back to the source material, and have continued to tell stories that can fit right in with what the screen material did. Now, I understand that Trek has several hundred times more material to build of off, but there are still ways the Star Wars Legends EU could have continued on without losing what makes Star Wars what it is. So far the new canon has done a much better job sticking to that IMO.

I've read a lot of Trek books, a LOT, and the best of them can't compare to the best of SW. Its not even a contest, Star Wars demolishes Trek in the book/comic department. Its like Andre the Giant vs Peter Dinklage to use a ridiculous metaphor. I love the old EU much, much more then the movies. I wouldn't be a huge SW fan without the EU. I'd like them a lot, but the reason SW is neck and neck with Trek as my favorite franchise is the old EU. It had great characters and stories that put both the OT and Prequels to shame.

The old EU could explore the universe. The Trek books are mostly stuck following the same old people or one or two terrible spin offs (like the Titans books or all the random idiots added to the "DS9" novels). My top 5 favorite SW characters were never so much as mentioned in a movie or cartoon. The old EU didn't "lose what SW is". The OT is not all of what SW is, and its honestly fairly arridiculous in my opinion to say that. As far as I'm concerned, the OT was the bedrock of the franchise but the EU made it a great one and overall eclipsed everything Lucas ever did. If I had to choose between never reading the old EU or never watching the movies I'd never watch a SW movie again with no hesitation.

 

[JD]

The new Yoda reveal is bad fanfiction and I'll treat it as such.

Very strongly disagree.

As for the book, Its mostly people who I've never heard of, along a few people who have only written SW books for literally kindergartners, the two worst new canon writers (Claudia Grey and Chuck Wendig) and Paul Dini and Wil wheaton for some unknown reason.

Just because you haven't heard of them doesn't make them "random people".

I mean, there are a few good writers I suppose. Dini along with comic writers Charles Soule and Kieron Gillen might have good stories, same with the writers of Lords of the Sith and Kenobi. But its, at my count, about 7-8 good writers, a few absolutely terrible ones, a lot of mediocrity and a bunch of random people with little to no business writing a SW book.

How would you know they have no business writing Star Wars if you've never heard of them.

I've read a lot of Trek books, a LOT, and the best of them can't compare to the best of SW. Its not even a contest, Star Wars demolishes Trek in the book/comic department. Its like Andre the Giant vs Peter Dinklage to use a ridiculous metaphor.

Obviously this is all purely down to person taste, so there's really no point debating this, but even with all of the crazy shit you've said since you joined the boards I have never disagreed with something you have said more than I do with this.

I love the old EU much, much more then the movies. I wouldn't be a huge SW fan without the EU. I'd like them a lot, but the reason SW is neck and neck with Trek as my favorite franchise is the old EU. It had great characters and stories that put both the OT and Prequels to shame.

I'd put some of the best books right up there about even with the movies, but that's about as far as I'd go.

The old EU could explore the universe. The Trek books are mostly stuck following the same old people or one or two terrible spin offs (like the Titans books or all the random idiots added to the "DS9" novels). My top 5 favorite SW characters were never so much as mentioned in a movie or cartoon.

The Trek books have explored the Star Trek universe just as much as the Legends EU did the Star Wars universe. They are not stuck following the same old people, the Vanguard series did not have a single onscreen character in the main cast, and series like IKS Gorkon, Corps of Engineers, and Seekers used characters who only made one or two appearances and had little to no development. Even the series that are direct continuations of the shows have brought in a lot of new characters. I will admit that the TNG books do tend to focus pretty heavily on the TV characters, but the Voyager books especially have done a great job of treating their original characters pretty much equal to the TV characters.
There have been a lot more than one or two spin-offs, there have actually been 9 different book series that are not based off of TV series and in the majority of them the new characters or characters who only made one or two appearances onscreen vastly outnumber the major onscreen characters.
If you want I can give a count for each series, but since this is a Star Wars books thread and not a Trek one I don't want to derail this thread anymore than I already have unless I really have to.

The old EU didn't "lose what SW is". The OT is not all of what SW is, and its honestly fairly arridiculous in my opinion to say that. As far as I'm concerned, the OT was the bedrock of the franchise but the EU made it a great one and overall eclipsed everything Lucas ever did. If I had to choose between never reading the old EU or never watching the movies I'd never watch a SW movie again with no hesitation.

The OT established the look and feel of what that era of Star Wars, and as tie-ins to that the books really could have done a better keeping to that.
As books overall I did enjoy them, but as Star War stories they have a lot of room for improvement.

 

[kirk55555]

Very strongly disagree. Just because you haven't heard of them doesn't make them "random people".

The fact that most of them have little or no connection to Star Wars.

How would you know they have no business writing Star Wars if you've never heard of them.

I'm perfectly capable of looking up the author's names on wookiepedia and googling them. for the ones I don't know at all, the ones I looked up definitely aren't SW writers. But, this anthology is garbage so I guess getting basically random people (and if you honestly think that someone like Wil Wheaton being in a SW book isn't random I honestly don't know what to say, much less all the writers who have never even glanced at SW before when it comes to professional work) makes sense. It would cost too much to only hire good writers. Well, its for charity, so maybe they just couldn't get the good writers to give up very much of their time so they filled the rest of the book with whatever writers the people putting this together had on their contact list.

Obviously this is all purely down to person taste,

Yeah, I'm not going to point by point argue about the old EU because it is personal taste. To me, the old EU is Star Wars. I love the movies and I'm sure I'll continue to love the new movies as they come out, but to me the old EU in general was the epitome of Star Wars storytelling and it will never be surpassed. The best tie in fiction, but honestly I consider it the bulk of the franchise.

To me, there is no room for improvement because the EU is the gold standard. They were under no obligation to stick to Lucas's style or the style of the OT, and since it surpassed anything Lucas or Disney has ever produced I'm glad they didn't stick to just being "Lucas's vision" from the OT. The EU improved on everything the movies did, and surpassed them easily. Heck, even the worst of the Old EU never got as bad as, say, Episode 2.

Anyway, there I am arguing. I just hate how the Old EU gets no respect. To me, the Old EU is the franchise. It is Star Wars. its like how Stargate was a mediocre, badly written movie but SG-1 was much better and basically is the franchise. The books shouldn't have kept to the OT (although they did a fairly perfect job of doing so in the books set during the OT, the only difference is they improved on every element of the era), and not "keeping to it" lead to amazing stories that made Star Wars a universe and not just a few good to great movies.

 

[Tuskin38]

But, this anthology is garbage

You haven't even read it.

 

[JD]

The fact that most of them have little or no connection to Star Wars.

So, all of the authors who have written Star Wars novels or short stories had no connection to Star Wars before their first publication.

I'm perfectly capable of looking up the author's names on wookiepedia and googling them. for the ones I don't know at all, the ones I looked up definitely aren't SW writers. But, this anthology is garbage so I guess getting basically random people (and if you honestly think that someone like Wil Wheaton being in a SW book isn't random I honestly don't know what to say, much less all the writers who have never even glanced at SW before when it comes to professional work) makes sense.

It's not random at all, Will Wheaton is a hugely well known and popular member of the sci-fi community, I'm honestly kind of shocked it's taken him this long to do something Star Wars related.

It would cost too much to only hire good writers. Well, its for charity, so maybe they just couldn't get the good writers to give up very much of their time so they filled the rest of the book with whatever writers the people putting this together had on their contact list.

There are a few people on there I'm not familiar with, but ones I know are all well regarded, very popular writers. They all have numerous highly rated, bestselling novels to their name. These are all pretty much the complete opposite from no name writers who they scrapped together, these are some of the biggest names out there in SFF right now.
Just because you're not familiar with someone doesn't mean that no one is. There are a lot of authors who are very popular who I wasn't familiar with until recently, but I'm not about to call them nobodies. The world is a lot bigger than just the very small fraction of it I'm aware of.

 

[fireproof78]

To me, there is no room for improvement because the EU is the gold standard. They were under no obligation to stick to Lucas's style or the style of the OT, and since it surpassed anything Lucas or Disney has ever produced I'm glad they didn't stick to just being "Lucas's vision" from the OT. The EU improved on everything the movies did, and surpassed them easily. Heck, even the worst of the Old EU never got as bad as, say, Episode 2.

Anyway, there I am arguing. I just hate how the Old EU gets no respect. To me, the Old EU is the franchise. It is Star Wars. its like how Stargate was a mediocre, badly written movie but SG-1 was much better and basically is the franchise. The books shouldn't have kept to the OT (although they did a fairly perfect job of doing so in the books set during the OT, the only difference is they improved on every element of the era), and not "keeping to it" lead to amazing stories that made Star Wars a universe and not just a few good to great movies.

Then nothing will ever compete so why read it? If the pinnacle has been reached, then there is no going forward.

Though, I will always prefer the films to the books, with the rare exception. To me, the films get closer to Lucs' vision than the books do.

As a side note, I'm tired of Episode 2 getting no respect. Seriously, it's ridiculous.

 

[Eliczo]

The fact that most of them have little or no connection to Star Wars.



I'm perfectly capable of looking up the author's names on wookiepedia and googling them. for the ones I don't know at all, the ones I looked up definitely aren't SW writers. But, this anthology is garbage so I guess getting basically random people (and if you honestly think that someone like Wil Wheaton being in a SW book isn't random I honestly don't know what to say, much less all the writers who have never even glanced at SW before when it comes to professional work) makes sense. It would cost too much to only hire good writers. Well, its for charity, so maybe they just couldn't get the good writers to give up very much of their time so they filled the rest of the book with whatever writers the people putting this together had on their contact list.

I could say your opinion is garbage, but that would be just a bit unfair (barely). But it is formed by a lot of presumption and bias against a author who dares to write young adult books. Couple of dozen pages back you said you wouldn't read Bloodlines because the author wrote Lost Stars which you equalated to garbage because it was mostly aimed at young adults, you eventually did read Bloodlines and declared it wasn't terrible (I think...) doesn't that say to you and everybody here that your really hasty in your opinions and rarely admit when your wrong.

Honestly by now any comment I read from you if its about something you haven't read or watched then I just think why bother as no one will agree with you and most will disagree with you strongly. Yes your entitled to your opinion, it can be quite on the mark for stuff you've actually read or watched but when its not something you've read or watched it is often garbage.

Sorry if you think its a personable attack, but can't you understand the reaction you get from people who have more of an open mind to things?

Oh and lastly SW authors got to start somewhere I never heard of Aaron Allston for example before he wrote Wraith Squadron, but I never thought no he's not a SW writer.

 

[fireproof78]

I could say your opinion is garbage, but that would be just a bit unfair (barely). But it is formed by a lot of presumption and bias against a author who dares to write young adult books. Couple of dozen pages back you said you wouldn't read Bloodlines because the author wrote Lost Stars which you equalated to garbage because it was mostly aimed at young adults, you eventually did read Bloodlines and declared it wasn't terrible (I think...) doesn't that say to you and everybody here that your really hasty in your opinions and rarely admit when your wrong.

Honestly by now any comment I read from you if its about something you haven't read or watched then I just think why bother as no one will agree with you and most will disagree with you strongly. Yes your entitled to your opinion, it can be quite on the mark for stuff you've actually read or watched but when its not something you've read or watched it is often garbage.

Sorry if you think its a personable attack, but can't you understand the reaction you get from people who have more of an open mind to things?

Oh and lastly SW authors got to start somewhere I never heard of Aaron Allston for example before he wrote Wraith Squadron, but I never thought no he's not a SW writer.

And the EU has plenty of examples before Disney (hence force referred to as Pre-D EU).