The Final Frontier - the best of the series?

[Timewalker]

I love all of the original cast movies but , for me, The Final Frontier is the best one. I love the campfire scenes and get chills when Kirk says " I've always known - I'll die alone"

Anyone else love this fun and emotional film?

Not me.

And Kirk didn't end up dying alone.

I disagree with this wholeheartedly.

Shatner wrote and directed a film that was arguably MOST like the Original Series than any of the other films. It had Trek written all over it.

1. Emphasis on the "big three" and their friendship/interplay, with the remaining cast playing roles at times (just like TOS).
2. False God plot (need I say more?)
3. Another "Surprise....! Didn't know that about Spock, did you??" moment with Sybok as Spock's brother (second eyelid, copper-based blood, "Ambassador Sarek is my father," pon farr, etc, etc, etc.)
4. A guest antagonist/protagonist who is not really a typical "villain" per se
5. Humor that ranged from effective to somewhat campy
6. Kirk and the lading party get captured / Enterprise hijacked plot
7. More emphahsis on the characters and the "mystery/journey" than on technobabble or space battles, etc.
8. The journey ends up being about exploring the unknown...which is far more in line with "Roddenberry's intent" than "bad guy wants revenge" or "Again with the Klingons!"
9. There was an intended allegory with terrorist themes and the dangers of extremist evangelism.

Kudos for aptly breaking down the elements of why you like this movie. However, I have to disagree with some of it.

Sybok's existence in and of itself is a problem. As soon as I heard the words "Vulcan princess" I wondered "when did Vulcan become a monarchy?" and why didn't anyone ever mention Sarek having been previously married to anyone before Amanda, let alone a "princess"? I could have retconned it mentally if Spock had said Sarek had married a "Vulcan priestess" since it's never stated definitively that anyone going through Kolinahr has so be unmarried (and in fact Tuvok from Voyager is both married and a Kolinahr graduate).

"Marsh melons."

Enough said.

Food coloring (green and yellow), paint brush, and a bag of marshmallows. Combine, and you have marshmelons that look like little odd-shaped watermelons.

This is the first Star Trek movie I bought on VHS. I had never seen it before and it was the cheapest one for some reason...

My copies of the first 5 TOS movies on VHS were part of my introductory offer for the Columbia House tape of the month club. I figured that getting them for a penny plus 99 cents shipping (or was it 99 cents for all of them? I don't remember now) was about all STV was worth.


Honestly, I have tried to like this movie. I saw it in the theatre with the local Star Trek club, and nearly walked out. I'm atheist, so the "search for God" theme wasn't anything I found appealing, and the "let's go to the middle of the galaxy in just a few hours" is such an egregious bit of nonsense for a science fiction movie that wanted to be taken seriously. I have the "making of" book, but it's been years since I read it and don't recall if they hired a science advisor. If they did, they didn't bother listening to him.

The supporting characters were basically treated like crap. I'm sure Shatner thought it was innocent fun and hilarious that the helmsman and navigator would get lost, Scotty would knock himself out after bragging how well he knew the ship (all that was missing was little tweeting Disney bluebirds), and Uhura was only good for a strip tease. However, I found it appalling.

I'll admit that McCoy's scene with his father was sad and tragic. It's about the only part of the movie that rang true for me. It's something believable for McCoy, and that he could have held in this sort of pain for so many years.


I guess there's something not too bad that came out of this movie, though. I do enjoy the "Shatner on the Mount" YouTube video, along with the Star Trek Continues parody that starts out "Captain Kirk is building a fountain, why is he building a fountain?"

 

[Haggis and tatties]

It's a fun romp and has some really good charactors moments in it, but i would have loved a directors version with the rock creatures and demons and all the stuff Shatner wnated for the ending of the movie, would have added to the fun i think.

I want a BR edition of the TMP directors edition and a directors edtion of TFF with all the stuff they could not film, and i want them NOW!..... not like i am asking for much.

 

[Tallguy]

Sybok's existence in and of itself is a problem. As soon as I heard the words "Vulcan princess" I wondered "when did Vulcan become a monarchy?" and why didn't anyone ever mention Sarek having been previously married to anyone before Amanda, let alone a "princess"?

Vulcan has obviously always been a monarchy. Nowhere in three seasons of TOS and two seasons of TNG did it say otherwise. (T'pau looked pretty monarchical.)

When would Sarek's past marriage have been mentioned? " Captain, Ambassador Sarek and his wife are my parents. And this is his second wife, the first being a Vulcan princess. They had a son who's name is irrelevant at this time."

This whole Katra business never came up before either. Neither did Kolinahr.

I'm not saying that I find this story particularly satisfying, but there is certainly a heck of a lot of room for it.

 

[Vger23]

Kudos for aptly breaking down the elements of why you like this movie. However, I have to disagree with some of it.

Sybok's existence in and of itself is a problem. As soon as I heard the words "Vulcan princess" I wondered "when did Vulcan become a monarchy?" and why didn't anyone ever mention Sarek having been previously married to anyone before Amanda, let alone a "princess"? I could have retconned it mentally if Spock had said Sarek had married a "Vulcan priestess" since it's never stated definitively that anyone going through Kolinahr has so be unmarried (and in fact Tuvok from Voyager is both married and a Kolinahr graduate).

I don't think this is an issue at all. "Princess" was likely the best Vulcan-to-English translation for some other high-profile position that the mother held. I doubt that Spock literally meant "the son of a King." That said, we saw evidence of a feudal-like society in TOS...so it is fairly consistent

Additionally, saying "we didn't know about this" is actually consistent with almost all of Spock's private life through the course of TOS. Nobody knew his father was the Vulcan Ambassador. Nobody understood Pon Farr, nobody knew about the "inner eyelid," nobody had ever heard of a "Katra," etc.

 

[Timewalker]

I don't think this is an issue at all. "Princess" was likely the best Vulcan-to-English translation for some other high-profile position that the mother held. I doubt that Spock literally meant "the son of a King." That said, we saw evidence of a feudal-like society in TOS...so it is fairly consistent

Princesses are female, so of course nobody's talking about the "son of a king."

Feudal doesn't necessarily equal monarchy. We're used to the European model, but there are others. Rome had a feudal-equivalent setup, but it wasn't a monarchy.

Vulcan society is set up according to clans, ancestral lands, ancestral families, ancestral positions, and so on.

Additionally, saying "we didn't know about this" is actually consistent with almost all of Spock's private life through the course of TOS. Nobody knew his father was the Vulcan Ambassador. Nobody understood Pon Farr, nobody knew about the "inner eyelid," nobody had ever heard of a "Katra," etc.

A previous wife and son is quite an omission.

 

[Tallguy]

A previous wife and son is quite an omission.

The Marcuses and Demora Sulu agree with you.

 

[Khan 2.0]

It's a fun romp and has some really good charactors moments in it, but i would have loved a directors version with the rock creatures and demons and all the stuff Shatner wnated for the ending of the movie, would have added to the fun i think.

I want a BR edition of the TMP directors edition and a directors edtion of TFF with all the stuff they could not film, and i want them NOW!..... not like i am asking for much.

we need a 'Star Trek V Directors Cut.. NOW' mug

 

[Vger23]

Princesses are female, so of course nobody's talking about the "son of a king."

Feudal doesn't necessarily equal monarchy. We're used to the European model, but there are others. Rome had a feudal-equivalent setup, but it wasn't a monarchy.

Vulcan society is set up according to clans, ancestral lands, ancestral families, ancestral positions, and so on.


A previous wife and son is quite an omission.

Sorry- slipped up on the "son" vs. "daughter."

Again, I think it's not "quite an omission" since Spock was consistently and clearly shown as an individual who shared very little of his past or family history even with his closest friends.

So, there's admittedly a lot of reasons for not liking TFF...but the existence of Sybok isn't really one of them. It's absolutely consistent with Spock's private attitude that was on full display through the course of the entire franchise.

 

[Vger23]

The Marcuses and Demora Sulu agree with you.

Piotor Chekov agrees with you!

Oh...wait...never mind.

ARRRGHGHGHHH!!! COSSAKCS!! YOU KEEL MY BROTHER...PIOTOR!!!

 

[Tallguy]

Piotor Chekov agrees with you!

I nearly used that as an example myself.

McCoy, Scotty, Sulu, and Chapel must all be only children, since we never heard about their siblings either.

Of course, Kirk had a brother once...

 

[Timewalker]

Vulcan has obviously always been a monarchy. Nowhere in three seasons of TOS and two seasons of TNG did it say otherwise. (T'pau looked pretty monarchical.)

Nonsense. There was NO mention of Vulcan being a monarchy. There would undoubtedly have been monarchical governments at some point in its history, but it seems to me that modern-day Vulcans would prefer to have their leaders hold their positions by merit rather than by lineage. Yes, I know about all the fanfic and novel lore that goes into Spock's ancient lineage and aristocratic position. I happen to love those stories when they're told well (ie. in any Diane Duane novel). But we didn't actually see any evidence of monarchy in TOS or TNG. The "princess" came out of left field in STV and was never mentioned again.

As mentioned, I wouldn't have had a problem with the word "priestess" since we know that undergoing Kolinahr doesn't mean you can't also be married.

McCoy, Scotty, Sulu, and Chapel must all be only children, since we never heard about their siblings either.

Scotty has a sister. We know that because he introduces cadet Peter Preston as "my sister's youngest" - which is why Scotty wasn't really thinking straight when he carried Peter's badly-burned body up to the bridge instead of Sickbay in TWOK.

The novelization of STIII has a scene in which Scotty visits Peter's family on Earth and is unfairly blamed and vilified for Peter's death.

 

[Tallguy]

Nonsense. There was NO mention of Vulcan being a monarchy. There would undoubtedly have been monarchical governments at some point in its history, but it seems to me that modern-day Vulcans would prefer to have their leaders hold their positions by merit rather than by lineage. Yes, I know about all the fanfic and novel lore that goes into Spock's ancient lineage and aristocratic position. I happen to love those stories when they're told well (ie. in any Diane Duane novel). But we didn't actually see any evidence of monarchy in TOS or TNG. The "princess" came out of left field in STV and was never mentioned again.

"Princess" was never mentioned before V. Neither was "President", "Chancellor", or "Grand Poobah". There was never any indication that Vulcans were merit based or otherwise. The three positions we know by name on Vulcan are Ambassador, Healer, and Princess. Maybe Scientist. (I don't know if post TNG Trek introduced anything further.)

Scotty has a sister. We know that because he introduces cadet Peter Preston as "my sister's youngest" - which is why Scotty wasn't really thinking straight when he carried Peter's badly-burned body up to the bridge instead of Sickbay in TWOK.

The novelization of STIII has a scene in which Scotty visits Peter's family on Earth and is unfairly blamed and vilified for Peter's death.

We found out Scotty had a sister exactly three movies before we found out Spock had a brother. (The writer's guide specifically said he was an only child, actually.)

 

[Commander Kielbasa]

Of all the sequels I have ever known, The Final Frontier was the most Trek-y.

But in seriousness, every single complaint leveled at TFF could be leveled at TOS. TFF is basically a feature-length TOS episode in tone and style. It's ironic that the most beloved TOS-era films are those which have little to do with the tone of the series itself. TWOK may recall a past episode, but it doesn't feel very Trek. TUC is a tight, well-written film, but it feels like Hunt for the Red October with Star Trek characters pasted in.

 

[GulBahana]

It just makes me wonder if any director could have made Star Trek V work. Shatner's original story idea was even worse than what they had.

 

[Vger23]

TUC is a tight, well-written film, but it feels like Hunt for the Red October with Star Trek characters pasted in.

Agree regarding the Red October influence, but disagree that the film is tight and well-written. TUC, while fundamentally entertaining has one of the sloppiest scripts and stories in the franchise.

 

[Vger23]

It just makes me wonder if any director could have made Star Trek V work. Shatner's original story idea was even worse than what they had.

Based on what, exactly?

 

[GulBahana]

From the wiki page.

When Kirk confronts "God", the image of the being transforms into that of Satan, and Kirk, Spock, and McCoy split up in their escape. Kirk eludes capture but goes back to save his friends from being carried away to Hell.[18]

 

[Patrick16309]

Underrated and thought-provoking with lots of potential despite its glaring flaws.

 

[Vger23]

From the wiki page.

When Kirk confronts "God", the image of the being transforms into that of Satan, and Kirk, Spock, and McCoy split up in their escape. Kirk eludes capture but goes back to save his friends from being carried away to Hell.[18]

And how is this one sentence you've quoted from Wikipedia objectively "worse than what we got" with regard to the film's overall story?

 

[Phoenix219]

Of all the sequels I have ever known, The Final Frontier was the most Trek-y.

But in seriousness, every single complaint leveled at TFF could be leveled at TOS. TFF is basically a feature-length TOS episode in tone and style. It's ironic that the most beloved TOS-era films are those which have little to do with the tone of the series itself. TWOK may recall a past episode, but it doesn't feel very Trek. TUC is a tight, well-written film, but it feels like Hunt for the Red October with Star Trek characters pasted in.

Ironically, the best version of the movie that I've ever seen is cut down to a pilot TOS length, and has TOS sound FX and music cut into it. Its smooth, sleek and eminently watchable.