Discovery tackles current political divide

[Gepard]

TNG was the one to start the "you need to be like us (America)" stuff that runs throughout modern Trek.

Also -- and related -- the "one world Utopia" may sound all liberal huggy-feely, but as presented in TNG it meant the homogenization of humanity under one single culture where individual differences in personality were almost non-existent. Everyone marched to the same fucking drum.

There's no way to pull that off in reality that isn't fascist.

 

[cultcross]

Hopefully, they will show the difficulty when one side is so intractable and evil.

Not to drive us down a political discussion here, but I think this kind of belief - that one side is inherently evil and intractable - is what the whole theme is there to tackle. At least, I hope so - it certainly has been so far in Trek. If the crew of TNG could find common ground with a Borg, I'd hope the crew of DSC can apply those values to Klingons. The key line for me in the article is "The Klingons aren't the enemy". This fills me with a lot of hope for this series' themes.

 

[RAMA]

The UFP is the USA, and always has been.

Moreso in TOS's time, less so after STNG.

 

[RAMA]

Not to drive is down a political discussion here, but I think this kind of belief - that one side is inherently evil and intractable - is what the whole theme is there to tackle. At least, I hope so - it certainly has been so far in Trek. If the crew of TNG could find common ground with a Borg, I'd hope the crew of DSC can apply those values to Klingons. The key line for me in the article is "The Klingons aren't the enemy". This fills me with a lot of hope for this series' themes.

I don't believe right wing belief, in general, is evil, I believe the current one demonstrably is. It is well known that current Republican thinking is not what it was 20 years ago, and even further from what it was in the 70s. The party isn't even identifiable as the one from 100 years ago.

I didn't really want to go too in depth with this aspect, but the administration that DSC may critique is not even a political one, it is basically a vanity project that revolves around power, celebrity and money, not around politics at all.

So anyway, back to your regularly scheduled program.

RAMA

 

[zar]

You know, you're probably right. It sounds more like they are saying we need to work together instead of being divided. Hopefully, they will show the difficulty when one side is so intractable and evil.

RAMA

I think season one will begin with Starfleet (or at least Burnham) believing the Klingons are irredeemably evil ("no dream can protect us from YOU") and end with both sides learning something from each other, then they begin to actually "work together" in season two. (Kurtzman said he doesn't want to continue the Klingon war arc into the second season.)

 

[CorporalClegg]

If they really wanted to go out on a political line, they would have started with making the lead a Middle Eastern Muslim woman. (Like I said back when the "woman of color" was first announced.)

If you really want the show to represent a 'hopeful future,' what better way then to have the hero be a representative of one of the most oppressed and subjugated groups of people on Earth? But, oh yeah, "no religion in Star Trek."

Another thing that would be really great is to see a character transition over the course of the show. There is extra potential here because of the would-be 23c technologies with better hormone treatments and much less evasive procedures.

ETA: I did think a really amazing thing they could have done was have a character who, through the use of Star Trek technomagic was truly gender-fluid. As in they can actually change their gender at will as if they were putting-on clothes. (I have no idea what an appropriate verb would be.)

The reason I didn't suggest it at first is because I think it would be a casting logistics headache. But I'm throwing it out there anyway.

 

[JD]

I'm glad to hear we'll be seeing them take on current events in the US, this kind of allegory has always been what Trek was about.

 

[johnjm22]

it always amazes me that so many conservatives enjoy Star trek, which is anti capitalism and highly critical of religion.

Most of my family and extended family is Christian conservative. Trek is big in our family. Going to see the new Star Trek movie is one of the few family events we do together (aside from the normal holiday stuff).

I'm very much pro capitalism/free enterprise. I think money is a good thing that's helped society a great deal. Star Trek is my favorite franchise. I also like Rage Against The Machine. I think "The Neutral Zone" is a great TNG episode. I enjoy the part where Picard ridicules Ralph Offenhouse (the greedy capitalist guy).

I'll never understand this idea that if you don't agree with all the views of a piece of art that you can't like it. That seems like a miserable way to judge something. There are many aspects of art to appreciate regardless of message.

And really the politics of Trek have been exaggerated. Most of Trek is wholesome family entertainment compared to other stuff that's out there. The main reason people like it is because they find the stories and characters entertaining.

 

[donners22]

TNG was the one to start the "you need to be like us (America)" stuff that runs throughout modern Trek.

Oh, that was very much a theme of TOS as well.

As Nicholas Meyer put it:

what were Kirk’s adventures but a species of gunboat diplomacy wherein the Federation (read America, read the Anglo-Saxons) was always right and aliens were—in Kipling’s queasy phrase—“lesser breeds”? Yes, there was lip service to minority participation, but it was clear who was driving the boat.

 

[Nyotarules]

Attack political views they don't agree with?

Being anti-Trump is the least brave thing to do in Hollywood.


What, continue to throw a hissy fit over the election like 99% of Hollywood has and attack the members of their fanbase who voting for Trump?

In the 1960's some of their fan base thought Jim Crow and his laws were sacrosanct and civil rights was a communist plot. Hope they were pissed off every time they watched a desegregated Starfleet in action.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Oh, that was very much a theme of TOS as well.

As Nicholas Meyer put it:

what were Kirk’s adventures but a species of gunboat diplomacy wherein the Federation (read America, read the Anglo-Saxons) was always right and aliens were—in Kipling’s queasy phrase—“lesser breeds”? Yes, there was lip service to minority participation, but it was clear who was driving the boat.

Which is why "utopia" is el-oh-el.

 

[Nyotarules]

The UFP is the USA, and always has been.

More a fantasy version of the USA, what it could be if the nation really believed and practised 'We, the people' instead of 'We, the well-off, middle class, non-Semitic, non Hispanic, Protestant, heterosexual and white Northern European people'

 

[Nyotarules]

Also -- and related -- the "one world Utopia" may sound all liberal huggy-feely, but as presented in TNG it meant the homogenization of humanity under one single culture where individual differences in personality were almost non-existent. Everyone marched to the same fucking drum.

There's no way to pull that off in reality that isn't fascist.

World War III decimated everywhere but North America....

 

[BillJ]

Oh, that was very much a theme of TOS as well.

As Nicholas Meyer put it:

what were Kirk’s adventures but a species of gunboat diplomacy wherein the Federation (read America, read the Anglo-Saxons) was always right and aliens were—in Kipling’s queasy phrase—“lesser breeds”? Yes, there was lip service to minority participation, but it was clear who was driving the boat.

But Kirk could learn. As we saw in episodes like "Arena", "The Devil in the Dark", "Errand of Mercy".

Heck, Voyager's "The Omega Directive" is very much the USA in action. You have something that we think is dangerous, so we're going to take it from you. There are lots of other examples as well.

 

[Cake]

I am kind of bored of US politics. I guess because of massive overexposure in the media during the last year. So I hope they keep it allegorical and don't go the Supergirl route, which lacked any kind of subtlety.

 

[Gepard]

World War III decimated everywhere but North America....

And? WWIII isn't real. It "decimated" whatever the writers wanted it to decimate.

The world presented in Star Trek is very narrow. All the internal justifications for that don't make it immune to criticism.

 

[CorporalClegg]

I think the 'allegory' thing is so overblown. It's just too passive and half-hearted. It may have been okay in the 60s. But by the time TNG came around, you had had St. Elsewhere, HSB, All in the Family and the like. Star Trek's soft hand just felt sentimental and quaint. And it's 2017 now. If they continue to play it that safe, the show will just feel old-fashioned.

Say what you will about Orci and his tinfoil-hattedness, but he didn't pull any punches in ID.

Though sometimes the great stuff comes when it does both. Take "Measure of a Man" for example. It was an allegory of sorts, but it still dealt with an individual and defining his rights. And it came when fear of global technological connectivity and the would-be potential Skynets and Samaritans of the world was really beginning to manifest.

 

[Kemaiku]

And? WWIII isn't real. It "decimated" whatever the writers wanted it to decimate.

The world presented in Star Trek is very narrow. All the internal justifications for that don't make it immune to criticism.

Decimate means to reduce something to 10% of what it was. As in decimating an army is to kill only 90% of them specifically.

 

[BillJ]

I think the 'allegory' thing is so overblown. It's just too passive and half-hearted.

I agree. It may make the show feel old-fashioned. I think the majority of people are now use to storytellers not pulling any punches.

Say what you will about Orci and his tinfoil-hattedness, but he didn't pull any punches in ID.

One of the reasons why its a great movie.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

World War III decimated everywhere but North America....

London looked to be in remarkably good shape in STID, so perhaps the UK also escaped large scale destruction?

(Yes, I know STID takes place over 200 years after the war, but I highly doubt that a major city could be rebuilt from scratch in that short a time)