Spoilers Wonder Woman - Grading & Discussion
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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Yeah, and obesity is not a problem at all.
The Post 1960's left resent heroines being attractive?
How about that first issue of a famous leftward leaning magazine?
Lynda Carter was blasted by the left for being one of the so-called "jiggle shows" of that decade (along with Charlie's Angels, Three's Company, etc.), resenting her visual appeal sold above her substance (their argument), instead of being more like Mary Tyler Moore's TV character (for one period example).
As for the Box office update on WW...
WW is estimated at $801,000,000+ this weekend.
BVS made $873,000,000 + AND cost a $101,000,000 more to make.
You're ignoring WW's marketing budget, which sends it far above the production budget usually listed on box-office mojo. WW was not an inexpensive film.
Movie Marketing Madness: Wonder Woman
That's a great article about the film's marketing.
All the marketing was good enough to give the movie a $103 million opening weekend, and I'd imagine all the good word of mouth from those that saw it did the rest.
That's a great article about the film's marketing.
All the marketing was good enough to give the movie a $103 million opening weekend, and I'd imagine all the good word of mouth from those that saw it did the rest.
Well the point was that WW was likely more profitable than BVS so unless the BVS number included its marketing budget or you're saying WW had a much higher marketing budget, which seems unlikely, it doesn't really effect the point being made.
Obviously it needs to be taken into account for overall profitability though.
I think it's jealousy. Cameron is hearing all this talk of WW being a transformative movie with a female protagonist/hero who many are calling one of the greatest, if not the greatest, female superhero movie lead ever, or at least in many years.
He's probably looking for some credit for presenting two very strong female heroes in Sarah Connor and Ellen Ripley. He didn't create Ripley, I know, but he lifted that character to unprecedented heights of badassery in Aliens. He is right, those were two great characters, two especially great female characters. But what Pattie Jenkins points out in her response is true, Cameron doesn't understand how WW is different Ripley and Connor.
What's ironic, though, is that Cameron actually has presented a female character who, granted, isn't on the same level as WW, but has a similar moral compass, courage, strength, and integrity; Natyri, the Navi woman in Avatar. Natyri could have been WW on Pandora. She had a strict sense of right and wrong, and moved on it accordingly with no hesitation.
Cameron must have had some kind of ego spasm, or something, and somehow forgot Natyri. Otherwise, he would surely have mentioned her.
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BvS's profitability
https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcai...an-v-superman-a-good-investment/#2d937fb2fb81
WW's marketing budget vs SS... no actual $
http://screenrant.com/wonder-woman-marketing-solo-posters/
I love this mid May article predicting what WW could realistically gross world wide.
http://screenrant.com/wonder-woman-2017-movie-budget-estimates/
As for jiggle shows from the 1970's... why would one assume people against them are leftward leaning?
Are the guys who protest the cat suits that Seven of Nine and T'Pol wear also leftists?
By rights one could just as easily argue that the anti jiggle crowd would be bible thumping Red Staters.
ETA: She's number 2 in Japan, with numbers that put the foreign gross over 400,000,000.
http://variety.com/2017/film/asia/japan-box-office-sekigahara-wonder-woman-1202540355/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcai...an-v-superman-a-good-investment/#2d937fb2fb81
WW's marketing budget vs SS... no actual $
http://screenrant.com/wonder-woman-marketing-solo-posters/
I love this mid May article predicting what WW could realistically gross world wide.
http://screenrant.com/wonder-woman-2017-movie-budget-estimates/
As for jiggle shows from the 1970's... why would one assume people against them are leftward leaning?
Are the guys who protest the cat suits that Seven of Nine and T'Pol wear also leftists?
By rights one could just as easily argue that the anti jiggle crowd would be bible thumping Red Staters.
ETA: She's number 2 in Japan, with numbers that put the foreign gross over 400,000,000.
http://variety.com/2017/film/asia/japan-box-office-sekigahara-wonder-woman-1202540355/
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Remind Cameron, then. He's the one saying that female action heroes shouldn't have a soft side otherwise it's exploitive.
That being said, Cameron's idea of soft side is somewhat shy of being a fresh-off-the-boat woman-child with a fascination for ice-cream and babies in strollers. Cameron's characters are, at their core, worldly, not naive.
There's a point to be made about the presentation of violence as entertainment for its own sake. The visual arts often actively ask you to react a certain way. It's kind of like when you watch a sitcom with a laugh-track you're more inclined to laugh at bad jokes than without it. When a film is presenting violence like a choreographed ballet it is asking people to gloss over the loss of life and view it as kinetic art. Compare that to, let's say, how violence is presented in A Clockwork Orange, where the film offers a direct examination of our relationship with violence on and off the screen, where a connection seems to be made between Alex and the viewer.
As much as Snyder visually glorifies violence overall, when it came to the Zod neck-snap scene it was really done to attack the core of our cultural expectations that Superman maintain a spotless reputation. It was an assault on audience expectations. That's not the kind of Superman movie I wanted to see, but I'll give it credit for doing something unexpected that got people talking. Superman as a spotless icon was just martyred in order to do it.
When it comes to Wonder Woman, Diana was raised as a warrior. Despite being fascinated by babies and appreciating the abstractions of love and peace, she doesn't seem to have the same aversion to killing that Superman does. So on the beach scene, even though this is the first time she actually had to do it, she doesn't have any moral ambivalence, before, during, or after. The only way the film singles her out is by making sure she saves Steve Trevor from the Amazon's vengeance.
Also, while the false-bad guy German was still a bad guy, after she realized he wasn't Hades, she doesn't seem to care that she just chased down and murdered the wrong guy.
The only time she really expresses mercy is by refusing to kill Dr. Poison, which comes across as somewhat forced.
I think if the film wanted Wonder Woman to value the sanctity of human life more it would have given her more of a sense of remorse about killing right from the start. But I guess you can chalk that up to being a key difference between WW and Superman's personalities. Superman is really supposed to be more of a lover than a fighter and WW comes from a Xena-like Warrior tribe.
At the same time, this sort of thing, taken as a whole, shows that the film has sort of a Spielberg Raiders style simplicity. It's not really concerned with examining these issues at such a level of seriousness. So to hold it up to that level of scrutiny is a little unfair.
It would have been very easy to create a movie with WW portrayed as a "tough and gritty" character, similar to either Ripley or Connor, on a quest for justice and it would have fit in with the previous tone of the DCEU as well as true to the way she has sometimes been portrayed in comics. I am glad the creators decided to take the movie in a different direction.
CBR has a few quotes from Patty Jenkins about what she has planned for Wonder Woman 2.
Should be interesting to see how she approaches a much more experienced Diana. The comment about her experiencing classic stories makes me wonder if she's looking at a specific story for inspiration.
Should be interesting to see how she approaches a much more experienced Diana. The comment about her experiencing classic stories makes me wonder if she's looking at a specific story for inspiration.
As much as I enjoyed "Wonder Woman", I'm finding it harder to appreciate it as long as I keep encountering movie fans and critics who use it to dump back-handed criticisms and insults at the three DCEU movies that preceded. I'm sorry, but . . . that's how I feel.
Why can't people simply appreciate the movie without using it dump on the other films in the franchise? It's been nearly a year-and-a-half since "Batman v. Superman" was released and many are still dumping on it and Snyder . . . as if they cannot move on.
Well, I guess I'm no better. I can't move on and appreciate "Wonder Woman" without being constantly annoyed by those who proclaim it the best film in the DCEU franchise and dump on the films.
Why can't people simply appreciate the movie without using it dump on the other films in the franchise? It's been nearly a year-and-a-half since "Batman v. Superman" was released and many are still dumping on it and Snyder . . . as if they cannot move on.
Well, I guess I'm no better. I can't move on and appreciate "Wonder Woman" without being constantly annoyed by those who proclaim it the best film in the DCEU franchise and dump on the films.
Newton's third law.
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