The franchise is dead if you only cater to fans. It is only a matter of time until we die and take our interest/cash with us.
Future of Paramount includes Star Trek tentpole
- Thread starter RAMA
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The franchise is dead if you only cater to fans. It is only a matter of time until we die and take our interest/cash with us.
I still feel a new Star Trek movie can be made on a 100 million budget. Focus on story, less on special effects. Make it an intelligent one. Interstellar, Arrival like... with some sense of wonder and fun, but don't go chasing on motor cycles and using Beastie Boys music. We have enough films of that and those movies do a better job at that kind of thing anyway.
You lose 5% of the audience. Seriously, they tuned out years ago and didn't bother watching the show when it was on the air last time. Paramount wants an actual audience, they aren't aiming it at a tiny minority anymore.
You lose more, cos when you alienate the fanbase and see the backlash online... the general audience won't bother either.
The "backlash online" is limited to here, Facebook fan groups and comments on Youtube videos which nobody reads. If you were around in 2008/9 prior to Star Trek's successful theatrical release, you'll know how little the most vitriolic "they raped my childhood" nonsense actually matters.
To me, it would just be the opposite. If the hardcore fanbase is vocal and in the media as negative about Trek, the general audience tends to want to see it, out of "satisfaction" that it got a bunch of nerds pissed off.
If you alienate part of a fanbase for Trek, you only affect a small portion of the box office. A very small portion. Definitely not enough to make a difference in a movie's profit or loss.
If you alienate part of a fanbase for Trek, you only affect a small portion of the box office. A very small portion. Definitely not enough to make a difference in a movie's profit or loss.
exactly. the backlash @Visitor1982 refers to was at its worst surrounding the 09 film and that film was one of 2009's highest grossing films and holds an impressive 95% on rotten tomatoes.
it's not backlash that hurt the films it's apathy. paramount waited a whopping 4 years between the first two films and an additional 3 before releasing star trek beyond, erasing all the momentum and goodwill the first film earned the franchise.
That's part of what bothers me about the Kelvin movies. Too much catering in the form fan service or references to old Trek that general audiences don't care about.
I know you'll probably disagree with this, but I blame STiD a lot for the Kelvinverse movies running out of steam. I think ST09 got a lot of the general audience interested, but STiD squandered that interest. While STiD does have good reviews/ratings it's also very forgettable. It's "meh". I don't think it left the general audiences at all excited for what was coming next. It set STB up to fail IMO.
STiD as a whole was a big fan service wank. Re-hashing TWOK. I think if the the follow up to ST09 would have been more original and not concerned about fan service it may have been more memorable and would have kept general interest in this series of films going.
That first trailer to STB also reinforced the "meh" attitude general audiences had towords these films.
Star Trek hasn't always been niche. When Star Trek does well it's because the general audiences come on board in addition to the hardcore fanbase.
It's a delicate line to walk, between being new and fan wank. Though I think the fact they left so many dangling threads from Into Darkness, and completely dismissed them for Beyond, is what tanked the latter.
Into Darkness gave fans Klingons, Augments and Section 31, but the next film completely dismissed all of it. Audiences now like connected stories, Beyond simply felt like an orphan compared to other main stream film franchises.
Paramount allowed a few loud fans to change the course of the film franchise and lost $50 million for the pleasure.
I agree. Paramount wants the new movies to be action packed, sexy and cool so they appeal to general audiences, but they're afraid they won't appeal to the hardcore fanbase so they throw in as much fan service as possible to compensate. They're over thinking IMO. Just make a good movie!
I agree with this to an extent. Audiences do want story arcs. In the new SW movies Kylo Ren will be a consistent villian through out. We'll really be able to dig deep into his character and watch him grow. The same with Ray, Fin, Poe ect. The movies will all connect like they're one big story. Meanwhile the Kelvin Trek films are one-off bad guy stories.
I still stand by my opinion though that STiD left general audiences with a "meh" feeling towards these movies.
you're comparing the kelvin franchise to star wars, it's clear the producers intend it to be more like mission: impossible. i don't think general audiences actually chafe at that. they do have short attention spans though and hollywood abhors a vaccum - other franchises just spread out and grew and star trek popped up too infrequently and with too little fanfare to be that competitive.
2016 was a dreadful summer for a lot of franchises (2017 too for that matter). i think it has less to do with the direction of the franchise and more to do with lack of interest from 2009 on.
And probably will stay dormant until CBS has a chance to see how well Discovery does. We probably won't see a movie announced for another 1 to 2 years - and it'll probably be released as whatever run Discovery has is ending.
It pretty much came out the CBS had an agreement with Bad robot not to launch any new Star Trek series until the third Star Trek film from Bad Robot had been released. (I was a three picture deal Bad Robot had with Paramount.)
^^^
That's why it was no real surprise that once ST: B was out - there were rumors at CBS about a new Star trek series actually in the works. I wouldn't be surprised if Paramount is in agreement with CBS that they won't do anything on thwe ST feature film front until ST: D has had a chance to draw in viewers and have a good run.
Neither studio wants to overload the public on Star Trek again.
Whilst I agree that that would be hugely preferable to the 'superficial tat with added fanwank' approach so far, they're not going to risk moving far away from the ' big, dumb action movie' template.
Mainly true, but the 'early signs are not good' articles in the trade press and on the web get comment from somewhere. Origins may be lost as they go, but it feeds forward indirectly.
CBS has...ideas...that might conflict with the Kelvin movies. I hope not. I want Star Trek 4.
You have my heartfelt sympathy.
Or, cater to the small vocal side of the trek fandom that consists in mostly reboot haters.
The problem with beyond is exactly that because not only they alienated the general audience, they also alienated the trek fans who loved the reboot (call them kelvin trek fans) and were expecting a real sequel of the first movies, not a tos fanfiction that ignores most of what made JJ's trek unique and the potential of the first movie.
The creative team was kind of unapologetic about the fact that the movie was made and tailored on the "needs" of only a side of the trek fandom thst wasn't happy about the first movies, and of course it backfired.
I'll say it again, a fourth movie will have a chance only if they either get JJ back or find a director and writers who truly and honestly love the kelvin timeline and are inspired to use what jj&Co created in the first movie (is it so hard to find people like that in the business? I know a lot of writers and directors absolutely loved the 2009 movie. Heck, the comics writer genuinely loves this trek too and is more than happy to continue it in comics forms)
you're not the first person here to express this sentiment, but i find it very difficult to believe that simon pegg, co-writer of star trek beyond, is somehow a kelvin timeline hater. especially after his vociferous defense of star trek into darkness.
Agree 100% & have posted the same before.
JJ N Crew took 4 years between ST09 and STID to give us an entertaining, but meh adventure. Fail.....
Orchi's craptastic script led to STB getting only 6 months to write a script that needed fleshed out a couple more times, BUT for my $$ best film of the 3
Add in paramount's stealth mkt plan and you arrive where we are at currently
Just poor decisions which is too bad. ST4 is set up to be a good one, but we've been here before
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