Spoilers The Doctor Falls (Grade & Discussion Thread)

[DS9Continuing]

The AV Club review point outs that, as of this episode, Moffat has written for eight different Doctors, by far the most of any writer in the history of the show.

Fifth – "Time Crash"
Eighth – "Night of the Doctor"
War – "Day of the Doctor"
Ninth – "The Empty Child" / "The Doctor Dances"
Tenth – "Fireplace" / "Blink" / "Library"
Eleventh – full run
Twelfth – full run
and now First – "The Doctor Falls" / Xmas special 2017.

And that doesn't include whether you think the Curator was actually the Fourth Doctor or a future Doctor or not a Doctor at all, and whatever the hell "Curse of Fatal Death" may count as.

.

 

[diankra]

Yes, but there's something else going on with Mondas. The planet looks exactly like Earth. (There's even the fan theory that some of the Doctor's adventures that seem to take place on Earth, like "The Tribe of Gum," actually take place on Mondas before it was flung from its orbit.) Mondas is more than a case of Hodgkin's Law of Parallel Planetary Development. It is literally Earth's twin, as impossible and improbable as that is.

Personally, I suspect Time Lord interference, that for some reason they duplicated the planet in its entirety using their weird super-science. The question then becomes which is the original, Earth or Mondas? Or this a case where it doesn't matter; a difference that makes no difference is no difference? In this case, Earth is probably the original due to the presence and chemical composition of the Moon (the chemical composition indicates the two were the same body at one time), while Mondas had no moon. The Time Lord duplication of Earth may not have extended as far as duplicating the moon. Then you get into the question of when the Time Lords did this. 100 thousand years ago? More? Less? Perhaps even within recorded history?

Here we've got the old problem that some Who continuity was written before the tests underlying current science. So Earth and Mondas are formed from a single source, but the Moon is a rogue planet captured by Earth's gravity... whatever post-1973 science might prove in contradiction.

 

[BeatleJWOL]

I loved it. But, for the concurrent Star Trek fans here, I'm asking this:

Did anyone notice the "distressed transporter" sound around 20 minutes in, where the Doctor stumbles and a little regeneration energy is seen as he grasps a tree?

I did, actually. Thought it might have been an old-school Tardis sound for a moment but then realized it sounded more like the transporter and/or "The Cage" planet sound.

p.s. is nobody going to talk about the Tardis' cloister bell ringing there at the end? Or am I completely wrong on that?

 

[GNDN18]

I did, actually. Thought it might have been an old-school Tardis sound for a moment but then realized it sounded more like the transporter and/or "The Cage" planet sound.

p.s. is nobody going to talk about the Tardis' cloister bell ringing there at the end? Or am I completely wrong on that?

I'm intrigued by that cloister bell: it might be a response to having two Doctors and two Tardises in the same timeline (if this is 1986 Earth, I mean).

 

[Mr Awe]

So, The Doctor Falls really was a typo, wasn't it? It should have been The Doctor Fails.

Doctor Fails, love it! Particularly because X Falls is one of Moffat's reused/regurgitated themes, and fails flips it on its head. I say that as someone who did enjoy the episode for the most part. Good but not great.

So, what did he resolve in this season finale?

The Doctor was partly a plot device for getting the pieces in place. This actually reminds me of the Hartnell years where the Doctor often served as a means for getting the more relatable companions into danger. While this might seem a step backwards, given where this story seems to be going, it is also kind of appropriate.

I did enjoy how the situation was painted as truly no way out. Others have noticed a few homages to the Wrath of Khan, and this story serves as the Doctor's Kobayashi Maru test. How does he react to an impossible situation. Of course his reaction is to first repeat some of his earlier monologue with Missy but then to actually go on and defend the retreating farmers and Nardole. That's his solution to the test. And, he does make a difference. They will live to see another day, although maybe not too many more.

Spaceship falling into black hole? Nope, it's still there, falling into black hole.

But Nardole got the children to safety, right? No, they went four floors up, so the Cybermen will be along shortly to kiill or convert them.

Yes, without outside intervention, Nardole and company are well and truly fucked. Even if they continue to make it to higher and higher floors, that just increases the time differential with the bottom floor. To them, it'll appear that the Cybermen upgrade at a faster and faster rate. It won't be long before it's too much.

I do have an objection to it being the exact same fucking ending as in the last season finale. (Assuming it was real, and not just Bill's dying hallucination)

That a serious what the freaking fuck?! Seriously, if he doesn't want them to die, don't box them into a corner. If he wants to box them into a corner yet wants them to live, at least think of another dang solution!!

So, this is going to be one of those that is great at the time, popular, will get all the right praise from the right people, top the season polls,... and then be severely devalued upon repeat viewing because though stuffed fullof great actual moments, it's lacking in storyline substance, internal consistency or, well, any actual sense.

I had that impression even more so with part 1. There just wasn't much story to it. They arrive, get separate, and then lots of waiting. Simm was wasted in that one too. I thought the Doctor Fails was at least a step up because stuff actually happened and the little we saw of Simm with Missy was good.

Which does lead one to wonder whether the Xmas Special (which I expect to be basically It's A Wonderful Life about why one has to move on (and regenerate) will end up having to come back and address that. Or pick up Nardole, whom Bill flat out left to die with all the kids...

I wonder too. Plot-wise, I really don't know where the story goes. But theme-wise, I'm pretty sure they'll help each other with their regenerations.

 

[Xerxes82]

I think the emotions were different. Tennant's doctor was mournful. His line about "I could do so much more" was mournful, like he was heart broken over the fact that this doctor would not be able to do any more great things. And his final line, "I don't want to go" was sad, with a hint of fear. It was like he was sad over his own "death" and afraid of changing. Capaldi's Doctor seems more angry and defiant about it, forcefully snuffing out the regeneration energy on several occasions and defiantly shouting "No! I will not change!" So Tennant was nostalgic and mournful over no longer being his doctor, full of regret over no longer being able to do great things, but Capaldi is more pissed at the universe that he has to change again. Remember for Capaldi's Doctor, he has regenerated over a dozen times. So I feel like his Doctor has regenerated so many times now, that he is sick and tired of it, hence the more defiant tone.

Interesting. I agree with the defiance of the tone. Capaldi is very much playing it like he's genuinely pissed to be regenerating. Which is a pleasant change from where we've been. But I'm more curious about the underlying "Why?" of it. Do we think he's angry because he's "leaving" to be replaced by the new Doctor? Or that his life is continuing at all? Because I very much got both vibes from the episode itself. Oh well, on to X-mas!

 

[Romulan_spy]

Do we think he's angry because he's "leaving" to be replaced by the new Doctor? Or that his life is continuing at all? Because I very much got both vibes from the episode itself. Oh well, on to X-mas!

I would say the first one. I definitely did not get the impression that Capaldi's Doctor wants to permanently die but rather that he wants to live forever as this doctor and never change into a new doctor ever again.

 

[MacLeod]

I'm sure the Tardis landed exactly when and where it needed to, she is really quite reliable in that regard. As for the cloister bell sounding, it could be something to do with The Doctor trying to prevent his regeneration we saw what happened to the Tardis last time he delayed his regeneration.

 

[Solariabsg25]

Also, is it fair to call the Christmas Special as Part 3 of the finale? It seems to be the case to me, despite not having the Master(s) present.

I ask because I'd like to know if I can do a thread about best series finales or if I should wait until Christmas.

I'd certainly regard this as a trilogy, with the two-parter leading up to the resolution episode at Christmas, especially if it does actually have a major connection to the Tenth Planet and the First Doctor's own regeneration.

 

[Orac Zen]

We need to stop agreeing with each other (in case you missed it, I agreed with part of your review last week). It's just...weird.

I did notice that. It was an awful shock for me, too.

I also agree with pretty much everything @Lonemagpie said above - "the Doctor Fails" indeed.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I'd certainly regard this as a trilogy, with the two-parter leading up to the resolution episode at Christmas, especially if it does actually have a major connection to the Tenth Planet and the First Doctor's own regeneration.

I wouldn't expect the Christmas Special to be so directly linked to "World Enough and Time"/"The Doctor Falls" to consider them a trilogy. Besides the once-a-year Christmas audience, there will be viewers who are tuning in solely to see the regeneration, people who haven't seen (and probably have no desire to see) the last two episodes of Series 10. That's just the reality of the Christmas episodes.

So while a voice in the back of my mind is going, "Hey, this could be to 'The Tenth Planet' what 'Trials and Tribbleations' is to 'The Trouble with Tribbles,'" another, louder voice is saying, "You know this is going to be a one-off romp that guest-stars the first Doctor and ends with a regeneration, and that's all it's ever going to be."

 

[CorporalCaptain]

"Now that was really very nicely done." Meaning: better than average, but not outstanding.

 

[Candlelight]

So the whole 'complicated' bit that Moffat has aluded to for the Christmas Special is Capaldi lures Hartnell into his Tardis and stops him from regenerating (in The Tenth Planet) - thus knackering his own timeline. He has to get 1 to regenerate as history intended, so he can carry on himself. He'll likely give his own energy to get the ball rolling, thus triggering his own regeneration.

My guess anyway.

 

[Romulan_spy]

So while a voice in the back of my mind is going, "Hey, this could be to 'The Tenth Planet' what 'Trials and Tribbleations' is to 'The Trouble with Tribbles,'" another, louder voice is saying, "You know this is going to be a one-off romp that guest-stars the first Doctor and ends with a regeneration, and that's all it's ever going to be."

I wonder when Capaldi's regeneration will happen in the Christmas Special? Will Capaldi's Doctor be in the entire Special and regenerate at the very end or is it possible that Capaldi's doctor could regenerate say 20 minutes into the Special and the rest of it would actually be with the new Doctor?

 

[Australis]

I'm unsure as to why one would want to watch a reaction video of some randomer watching something. It sounds particularly boring and attention seeking.

Oh, it is attention seeking. But it's also about an experience you've just had, and this randomer is sharing their take on it. But hey, instead of having to watch hours of video, here's a six minute compilation of reactions of the last say 10 min of the show. The drunk girls spent most of their time crying for about the last half of it, so yeah. The reactions to One are especially fun.

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[Refuge]

Did I miss seeing the Master actually die? He looked like he went into the lift thingy not quite dead. Whereas Missy is gone. Dead eyes. She was great but he was/is the better villain.

Not so sure the tidy way Bill and Heather dumped the Doctor and headed off into the sunset was very convincing. It's like the Doctor isn't allowed any companions that just go home and make a cup of tea anymore. They all have to be super beings themselves now. I suppose when Bill gave the Doctor her tears he can now use them like she did to evoke a reset? He won't even need the Tardis if he's like them.

There's a tinge of identifying with the Doctor's final scene. It has taken all this time to get used to watching him and now he's going just as he's convinced me he's really the Doctor. Personally I'd love it if they surprised us and brought back a previous incarnation to be new Doctor, though we were hit over the head so many times with gender references and the sisterhood it would be surprising now if the next reincarnation isn't female.

I'd give this 4/5 for Peter Capaldi and for the Doctor's railing defiance.

 

[Romulan_spy]

Did I miss seeing the Master actually die? He looked like he went into the lift thingy not quite dead. Whereas Missy is gone. Dead eyes. She was great but he was/is the better villain.

I checked the scene again at the 45 minute mark. After Missy stabs the Master and he is bleeding, she helps him back to the lift. He says "how long do I have?" and Missy replies, "I was very precise. You will be able to make it back to your Tardis, maybe even get a cupper, though you might leak a little." and then the Master replies, "then I'll regenerate into you." So I think the scene makes it quite clear that the Master will descend down the lift wounded and bleeding from being stabbed, but make it to his TARDIS before regenerating into Missy. So yes, the Master survives to become Missy but Missy is quite dead since the Master even says to her "don't bother trying to regenerate. You took the full blast."

 

[Refuge]

I checked the scene again at the 45 minute mark. After Missy stabs the Master and he is bleeding, she helps him back to the lift. He says "how long do I have?" and Missy replies, "I was very precise. You will be able to make it back to your Tardis, maybe even get a cupper, though you might leak a little." and then the Master replies, "then I'll regenerate into you." So I think the scene makes it quite clear that the Master will descend down the lift wounded and bleeding from being stabbed, but make it to his TARDIS before regenerating into Missy. So yes, the Master survives to become Missy but Missy is quite dead since the Master even says to her "don't bother trying to regenerate. You took the full blast."

How does he, the Master, know he won't end up like the Doctor thinking he's going to regenerate and then meets up with his first self too? If he comes back as Missy isn't that a messy time loop groundhog day? Missy ends up dead. Unless he has a trick up his sleeve and can back any way the writers want him/her. At least we are told there will be a regeneration.

 

[starsuperion]

The doctor has to recover Missy's body or parts. He has an oath to keep. A 1,000 year oath. And the Doctor always beats the Master. His body is in a state of regeneration flux. She is newly dead, or dying. The doctor has his TARDIS now. Ala River Song and her Regen energy saving 11..she's human btw not Gallifreyan so her regens depleted...the doctor has what like 700 regens? Per Sarah Jane chronicles revelations. What's one lifetime for your best friend?

You can see where I'm going with this..

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

The doctor has to recover Missy's body or parts. He has an oath to keep. A 1,000 year oath. And the Doctor always beats the Master. His body is in a state of regeneration flux. She is newly dead, or dying. The doctor has his TARDIS now. Ala River Song and her Regen energy saving 11..she's human btw not Gallifreyan so her regens depleted...the doctor has what like 700 regens? Per Sarah Jane chronicles revelations. What's one lifetime for your best friend?

You can see where I'm going with this..

If there was a scene we didn't see, I'd like it if Nardole found Missy and brought her along.