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I don't really understand "cultural appropriation"

Is 2017's Ghost in the Shell cultural appropration?

  • Yes

    Votes: 6 27.3%
  • No

    Votes: 16 72.7%

  • Total voters
    22
Personally, I wouldn't wear Indian clothes unless I was invited to either, but why should you care if someone does? That's seriously judgmental and approaching ignorance. You know nothing about that person, their personal journey, their reasons for doing so. And more to the point, why should you care? Plenty of people in India itself wear Western clothes almost exclusively these days, barring a wedding or festival. And people in Asia at large have been wearing Western clothing since the 1860's at least.


Okay, that's straight up ignorant, shallow, and judgmental. Where does it say white people can't be Hindu or espouse Hindu/Indian philosophies? Why not? Yogis and Swamis have been coming to the West since the 1890's spreading their messages.

Even if "whitey" has a murti on their desk it because they practice yoga....hell, EVEN IF they are just doing it because they like it...why is it bad? THOUSANDS of street vendors all over India sell murtis, clothes, and Indian house decor to tourists, white and otherwise, every day. Where's the outrage among them?

Come on now.
Even if that's so, why should it matter? If people are attracted to an idea, be it religious, philosophical, whatever...sometimes it's sincere, sometimes they're attracted to certain elements and pick and choose...that's completely fine. Isn't life about discovery and evolution? It's their personal journey. Why should even bits and pieces of Hinduism be off limits just because it's "Indian"? If a person is white, and into yoga, and they have a murti or framed picture with a mala draped around it....how does that matter to others? On what basis does anyone have a right to judge that person?

They have none.

I have several murtis, which have been gifted to me, as well as some I've bought myself. I have a Sivalingam stone, gifted to me. I have several Buddhas. I even have an Orthodox Christian triptych my brother brought back from a trip to Romania. I have I have an entire library of Hindu and Buddhist books. I went through periods of my life where bits and pieces of each thing appealed to me. I liked parts, and that coalesced eventually into the philosophy I live by, personally.

And now I'm an atheist. But that doesn't make the things I liked about the books I read, and the journey I took, invalid. I didn't "appropriate" anyone's damn culture.

I have several kurtas, both gifted to me and that I've bought myself. Both decorative and plain. Do I wear them in public? No, because that's a conscious choice I make. But if I did wear them in public, like to Walmart or something, I would love to see someone try to tell me I shouldn't be wearing it, because I'm white, or that I was "taking the piss" appropriating another culture.

Y'know why that doesn't work? Because you're making a presumption. You're judging. You're assuming. You don't know what someone has been through. You don't know anything about them. You're just assuming that they're doing it because of some pop psychology, or they think it's cool, and they don't know how deeply disrespectful it is because of the history of white subjugation of other cultures (of which I know more than most, because of my historical background, so I'd like to see someone challenge me on that, too. They'd lose, pretty badly).

And that's just crap. First of all, you shouldn't judge. And second, what business is it of yours? It's none. Even if someone has a Ganesh statue on their desk and they're white and they're doing it because they think it's cool....who cares? Go after the Indian guy at some stall in Jaipur that sold it to them in the first place. Then go after the whole bazaar and shut it down, because they're allowing white tourists to carry all those kurtas, paintings, murtis, aarti sets, etc. home to the West where they're decorating their homes and office desks. Oh the humanity!!!!!

The entire argument starts to fall apart.

Seriously. Live and Let Live. Even if you start differentiating on who is doing it out of "genuine cultural interest" vs. "taking the piss", you're judging. And when you start judging, it's a slippery slope of muddled preconceptions.

Live your life and let people live theirs. Their fashion choices and how they decorate their home/office are the least of your worries in this big, bad world of ours.

As you can all see, I feel very strongly about this. But I'm leaving this thread now. My blood pressure will thank me later.
With respect, your experiences seem to have been understandably colored by some people in your past making judgmental presumptions about your areas of interest, and as a result you're getting a bit defensive about the topic and about stoo's comments in particular. I think given the obvious level of time, dedication, and study you've devoted to your interest in Hinduism and Buddhism that his "Taking the piss" or "After reading one book..." qualifications would not apply to you peronally. I know that there are people who would rush to judgment and criticize you for having those interests anyway without knowing what drove you to pursue those studies or for how long you've pursued them, but that was clearly not the intent of his rather even-handed and open-minded post.
 
As you can all see, I feel very strongly about this. But I'm leaving this thread now. My blood pressure will thank me later.

Then relax! The political correctness police are not coming to suck all the joy from your life. Sometimes the way people are using bits of another culture is fine, sometimes it isn't. We just need to use some discretion.

If for another example some white guy is dancing around in a native american headdress making a twat of themselves and making that tribe's rituals look stupid then... people are going to disapprove. It happens.

I have several Indian bits and pieces myself, I just don't make a big deal of them or try and make out like I'm somehow immersed in Indian culture. I'm not a good representative of the culture and it's better left to those who know what they're talking about.
 
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As are red people, yellow people, brown people, black people. People can be bad. It ain't just the honkeys.

honkeys do have a history of invading people and taking their shit.... they also tend to, on average, be doing better in western countries today. That's why it's better to not try and take over the representation of a culture (dance, clothes, whatver) that they once subjugated, and do so in a really stupid way.
 
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honkeys do have a history of invading people and taking their shit.... they also tend to, on average, be doing better in western countries today. That's why it's better to not take the culture of someone they once subjugated, try and take over the representation of parts of that culture (dance, clothes, whatver), and do so in a really stupid way.

Why is it that so many European-descended Americans claim to have Native American 'blood'? I could never understand that. I suppose because to me it's no different than being part...Greek or whatever. It's just something that's there. Do they think this would make them somehow feel set apart and special? I have news for them, it doesn't.

Some of us wondered if the day would come when people in a similar situation would claim to be of African descent. Then the President of the NAACP was revealed to be white, which was not a problem but she was trying to 'pass' as black. It started sooner than I expected.

It's a mystery to me.
 
Dolezal wasn't president of the entire NAACP, just the local chapter in Spokane, Washington. Your point still stands, though.

I imagine the motivation behind it is like all the straight white Christians who like to pretend they're a persecuted minority in this country, when they are neither persecuted or a minority here. There's a certain comfort in identifying with the second class or the oppressed when you don't actually have to experience the consequences of that status on a daily basis, and can just shed that identity and go back to being part of the dominant group as it suits you. It's not so enticing a prospect when you can't actually turn it on and off with a flick of a switch and it's your reality 24/7.
 
Some time ago, someone wrote a song with four chords. Turns out these chords are like the flour, oil and salt that make up a taco shell, but it's the ingredients that make the difference. Is anyone complaining about copyright? Nope. It is what it is. This is, as the title says, awesome.

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Why is it that so many European-descended Americans claim to have Native American 'blood'? I could never understand that. I suppose because to me it's no different than being part...Greek or whatever. It's just something that's there. Do they think this would make them somehow feel set apart and special? I have news for them, it doesn't.

Some of us wondered if the day would come when people in a similar situation would claim to be of African descent. Then the President of the NAACP was revealed to be white, which was not a problem but she was trying to 'pass' as black. It started sooner than I expected.

It's a mystery to me.

Lots of white people are under the mistaken belief that we have no culture, and so the only way for us to have a culture is to... claim someone else's. Hence all these people who are 1/16th Cherokee princess or whatever (but not really).

To the best of my knowledge, my ancestry is white as hell. :lol:
 
Until we did DNA testing, my family was under the impression that one of my great-great-great-grandparents was Iroquois, because that was the story - a woman in the family had "run off" from her actual husband and had a child by a Native American man.

So for quite a few years I believed I had a tiny claim to some Native American blood... but nope.
I'm pretty much all Scots-Scandinavian (Given that my clan originated in land that had been invaded by Vikings several times, this makes sense), with a smattering of folks from... just about everywhere the Vikings went, from Russia to North Africa.
 
^Paternity testing did not exist in the 19th century. I bet plenty men raised kids who were not genetically related to them, and they did not know it.
 
Until we did DNA testing, my family was under the impression that one of my great-great-great-grandparents was Iroquois, because that was the story - a woman in the family had "run off" from her actual husband and had a child by a Native American man.

So for quite a few years I believed I had a tiny claim to some Native American blood... but nope.
I'm pretty much all Scots-Scandinavian (Given that my clan originated in land that had been invaded by Vikings several times, this makes sense), with a smattering of folks from... just about everywhere the Vikings went, from Russia to North Africa.

And then there are some who have absolutely no family lore about any Native American heritage and nothing in the known branches of the family tree that would solidly point to it, but then it shows up completely unexpectedly on a DNA test. :confused:

No, I didn't forget it, I just forgot to quote it. But my point still stands. ANYONE can be a Hindu. It doesn't matter where you come from or what color you are. And if the "religious conversion" is not sincere, why should it matter MORE if it's Hinduism or Buddhism as opposed to people who are "born again Christians" because they read a book, but don't stick to it?

Religion is universal. That's the POINT. I'm an atheist, but in this instance, people should listen to Swami Vivekananda. There are no cultural lines.

I was always under the impression "being Hindu" had a lot to do with one's place or role in the Indian socio-cultural context.
Here's an interesting take on becoming Hindu: http://www.outlookindia.com/magazine/story/how-do-you-convert-to-hinduism/217913

Kor
 
Well, white writers do have a tough time with "black" dialect. I've read some pretty cringe-worthy examples. But then a couple of years ago I read a book by a black author that didn't do much better. Maybe it just doesn't translate well to the printed page.

A lot of the complaints remind me of Turk from Scrubs (who was not Turkish, by the way) saying: "White people ruin everything. I only got to say 'for schizzle' for about five minutes." No one can steal your culture, to the degree that others wish to adopt it, in whole or in part, just means that it is winning the cultural evolutionary struggle: "Survival of the Coolest".

I can understand people being displeased over the casting of black actors to play Jimmy Olsen (and not even a bow tie wearing JO) or Nick Fury or a white actress to play the "Ancient One", but it's not something I'm going to get worked up over.

Oh, and as for Elvis. He is believed to be a Melungeon, a racial subgrouping descended from men of sub-Saharan African origin. He could sing whatever he wanted to.
 
Oh, and as for Elvis. He is believed to be a Melungeon, a racial subgrouping descended from men of sub-Saharan African origin. He could sing whatever he wanted to.
Can't say I'm familiar with the term even though my family is from the region it originated in. Though wiki says it refers to people of mixed European, African and Native American ancestry.
 
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