Spoilers Logan - Grading & Discussion

[DimesDan]

Well we watched this fucking film last night, it entertained the fuck out of myself and Mrs-Dimesdan and I thought it was fucking great. And yes, for us, it is one of the fucking best comic book films of recent fucking history.

But yes, the fucking violence was a bit over the top, but all that fucking swearing, now that was a just superfluous and really fucking unneeded.

 

[Reverend]

Yeah, usually you'd expect a drunk, violent and resentful old killer and his bitter, senile and mentally ill surrogate father to be more careful with their language while hacking people's heads off. I mean there's no need to be rude!

As far as the larger world building stuff about the death of the X-Men and the depopulation of mutantkind goes, I rather appreciate a movie that don't spoon-feed the audience and treats it with respect and assumes it's intelligent enough to put the pieces together itself.

Besides, the movie wasn't about these things, it's just a backdrop. Aside from being clunky and unnecessary, explicitly spelling these things out would have distracted from the *actual* story of the movie. Logan, Chuck and Laura's story.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

I think part of the issue with the violence, swearing (and no question about it, gratuitous) moment of nudity is we've had 7 or 8 movies of these characters and their tone and then they went overkill.
Yes, it's meant to show how crappy things have gotten, but it's still disorienting after almost decades.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Really, I never noticed the swearing. But my friends and I all swear a lot. The violence I liked, since for all those previous movies I'd thought Wolvie's claws would do a LOT worse damage than we're ever shown.

IIRC the only nudity we see is some drunk girl flashing her boobs in the limo near the start? It wasn't exactly necessary to anything, but if severed limbs and puddles of blood are okay, bare boobs in a non-violent setting are as well!

 

[Reverend]

I think part of the issue with the violence, swearing (and no question about it, gratuitous) moment of nudity is we've had 7 or 8 movies of these characters and their tone and then they went overkill.
Yes, it's meant to show how crappy things have gotten, but it's still disorienting after almost decades.

You appear to be misconstruing the meaning of the word "gratuitous". It's not a synonym for "excessive", it means "done without reason". In this instance, the reason is fairly obvious: this isn't family friendly popcorn movie. People swear the way normal people swear in these kinds of circumstances.
Honestly, I barely noticed it after the first few instances. It felt entirely organic to me.

Really, I never noticed the swearing. But my friends and I all swear a lot. The violence I liked, since for all those previous movies I'd thought Wolvie's claws would do a LOT worse damage than we're ever shown.

IIRC the only nudity we see is some drunk girl flashing her boobs in the limo near the start? It wasn't exactly necessary to anything, but if severed limbs and puddles of blood are okay, bare boobs in a non-violent setting are as well!

And just like the swearing and violence it helped serve a purpose. Tone aside, it demonstrated what Logan's daily routine was like: mostly dealing with unsociable hours, drunks, arseholes and in general, people having much more of a good time than him. He's not even really a person with a name to them, just "hey you, driver!"

 

[Mr. Adventure]

The nudity served a purpose because while people will take their 6-year-olds to see a movie with Logan slicing people faces open they often have a problem with seeing a pair of tits so maybe it cleared some of them from the theater.

 

[Skywalker]

Well we watched this fucking film last night, it entertained the fuck out of myself and Mrs-Dimesdan and I thought it was fucking great. And yes, for us, it is one of the fucking best comic book films of recent fucking history.

But yes, the fucking violence was a bit over the top, but all that fucking swearing, now that was a just superfluous and really fucking unneeded.

I see what you fucking did there.

 

[Dream]

Great movie, but the ending makes it too painful for me to watch more than once.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

You appear to be misconstruing the meaning of the word "gratuitous". It's not a synonym for "excessive", it means "done without reason". In this instance, the reason is fairly obvious: this isn't family friendly popcorn movie. People swear the way normal people swear in these kinds of circumstances.
Honestly, I barely noticed it after the first few instances. It felt entirely organic to me.



And just like the swearing and violence it helped serve a purpose. Tone aside, it demonstrated what Logan's daily routine was like: mostly dealing with unsociable hours, drunks, arseholes and in general, people having much more of a good time than him. He's not even really a person with a name to them, just "hey you, driver!"

The scene with her flashing was the definition of gratuitous (I wasn't referring to the swearing, that was merely excessive). It was obvious, crass, and the point of the scene would have been exactly the same without it.

 

[DimesDan]

The scene with her flashing was the definition of gratuitous (I wasn't referring to the swearing, that was merely excessive). It was obvious, crass, and the point of the scene would have been exactly the same without it.

A woman flashed her boobs in an 18 film for literally a few seconds. The world must be falling!

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

Let's not be dramatic, I was just backing up why I thought it was gratuitous, not claiming anything more damaging to our planet than that.

It was the smallest problem with the film I had, the larger ones being X-24, the violence (just a personal thing) and how depressing it all was.

 

[DimesDan]

Let's not be dramatic, I was just backing up why I thought it was gratuitous, not claiming anything more damaging to our planet than that.

It was the smallest problem with the film I had, the larger ones being X-24, the violence (just a personal thing) and how depressing it all was.

Who's being dramatic? I'm not? You're not. so who is here?

And did you miss any of the publicity of this film? It was meant to be violent and it was meant to be depressing, it was after all a fucking Wolverine film without the fucking kiddy gloves on and appropriate for over 18s

 

[Reverend]

The scene with her flashing was the definition of gratuitous (I wasn't referring to the swearing, that was merely excessive). It was obvious, crass, and the point of the scene would have been exactly the same without it.

It was supposed to be crass. That's the whole point of that entire montage. Again, not gratuitous. Hell, it could barely be considered explicit. Again, I didn't even notice there was actual exposure the first time I saw it and probably wouldn't have the second time either had I not read someone on the internet whinging about it.
They're only nipples, they can't hurt you, which is more than can be said for razor sharp metal claws.

 

[JD]

Yeah, it was meant to be gratuitous. I can understand thinking it was unnecessary, but it did serve a clear purpose in the story.

 

[Gaith]

Yeah, it was meant to be gratuitous. I can understand thinking it was unnecessary, but it did serve a clear purpose in the story.

No, it served a clear purpose in the adult tone of the movie. As Mr'k pointed out, had the women kept their clothes on while being rowdy and obnoxious, "the scene would have been exactly the same" - i.e., it served zero purpose to the story. (Mind, I didn't mind the moment one bit, but I know a gratuitous moment of excess when I see one.)

Who's being dramatic? I'm not?

Yes, you fucking are. M'rk said, in the course of a debate over semantics, he thought the tits were gratuitous, and wasn't crazy about the movie's excesses overall. Responding with a line like "The world must be falling!", while obviously a joke on your part, is indeed a dramatic way of implying that his reasoned criticism of the movie is trivial at best and prudish at worst. If you're going to insult someone thusly, either have the courage of your convictions and don't deny having done so, or retract it.

It was supposed to be crass. That's the whole point of that entire montage. Again, not gratuitous.

Jesus, now you're saying that "crass" and "gratuitous" are mutually exclusive? Rubbish. This is a small detail on which reasonable people can have differing opinions of comparable validity. Must super-fans of this movie repeatedly shoot down every criticism, no matter how small, in binary terms? Hint: that's never a good look on said fans. (A term which happens to be derived from "fanatic".)

(Speaking of legitimate criticisms, I'm still waiting for an explanation for why Logan chose a hotel room in an upper floor of a crowded casino-hotel in Oklahoma City with cameras everywhere, rather than some fleabag roadside motel in a random town along the way.)

 

[DimesDan]

Yes, you fucking are. M'rk said, in the course of a debate over semantics, he thought the tits were gratuitous, and wasn't crazy about the movie's excesses overall. Responding with a line like "The world must be falling!", while obviously a joke on your part, is indeed a dramatic way of implying that his reasoned criticism of the movie is trivial at best and prudish at worst. If you're going to insult someone thusly, either have the courage of your convictions and don't deny having done so, or retract it.

Oh please, get the fuck over yourself. I was making a joke, I know this concept is alien to you (because debating what happens in a film is fucking serious business), so yes, get the fuck over yourself.

 

[Reverend]

Jesus, now you're saying that "crass" and "gratuitous" are mutually exclusive?

Not even close buttercup, but you keep on whacking those stawmen if that's what makes you happy.

But on the off chance you're not being deliberately obtuse: there's a difference between something not being mutually exclusive and something not being a synonym. Quite a big one as it happens.

 

[Gaith]

Moving on from bullshit semantic spats...

Picture, if you will, a neo-Western in which an aging action icon with serious anger issues must, due to sudden circumstance, protect and transport a daughter he barely knows, who's being hunted by merciless killers. But, unlike Logan, the 2016 Mel Gibson flick Blood Father runs a mere 88 minutes, and I'm tempted to call it the better film. Both movies feature quiet respites in their second acts, but whereas Logan introduces a family of random characters through sheer happenstance (who also happen to have a laughably improbable connection to the worldwide mutant shortage), the downtime companions in Blood Father showcase the crowd its protagonist came from, and highlights the ways they've grown apart, which strikes me as the more effective choice. (Again, I wish that the peaceful family in Logan had been that of Shreiber's Creed.)

Erin Moriarty (the Kilgrave victim and murder suspect from Jessica Jones) turns in a strong supporting performance as Gibson's daughter, and William H. Macy stands out in a cameo as an alcoholic washout named Kirby, making this an unofficial sequel to Jurassic Park III for those whole like to make such connections. But of course the main attraction is Mel himself, in his first starring role since 2012's even more delicious Get the Gringo. Blood Father is a bit less fun, but it's no less artful, and the 60-year-old Gibson is still crazy buff, crazy compelling, and likely a bit just plain crazy, also. (Never mind the black and white cut: I now want to see a Fury Road with him as Max even more than I did before.) To be fair, Logan has many more moments that stick with me than does Blood Father, but fans of the former may well enjoy the latter. It's a solid, gnarly low-key actioner from the director of the underrated Assault on Precinct 13 remake.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Moving on from bullshit semantic spats...

Picture, if you will, a neo-Western in which an aging action icon with serious anger issues must, due to sudden circumstance, protect and transport a daughter he barely knows, who's being hunted by merciless killers. But, unlike Logan, the 2016 Mel Gibson flick Blood Father runs a mere 88 minutes, and I'm tempted to call it the better film. Both movies feature quiet respites in their second acts, but whereas Logan introduces a family of random characters through sheer happenstance (who also happen to have a laughably improbable connection to the worldwide mutant shortage), the downtime companions in Blood Father showcase the crowd its protagonist came from, and highlights the ways they've grown apart, which strikes me as the more effective choice. (Again, I wish that the peaceful family in Logan had been that of Shreiber's Creed.)

Erin Moriarty (the Kilgrave victim and murder suspect from Jessica Jones) turns in a strong supporting performance as Gibson's daughter, and William H. Macy stands out in a cameo as an alcoholic washout named Kirby, making this an unofficial sequel to Jurassic Park III for those whole like to make such connections. But of course the main attraction is Mel himself, in his first starring role since 2012's even more delicious Get the Gringo. Blood Father is a bit less fun, but it's no less artful, and the 60-year-old Gibson is still crazy buff, crazy compelling, and likely a bit just plain crazy, also. (Never mind the black and white cut: I now want to see a Fury Road with him as Max even more than I did before.) To be fair, Logan has many more moments that stick with me than does Blood Father, but fans of the former may well enjoy the latter. It's a solid, gnarly low-key actioner from the director of the underrated Assault on Precinct 13 remake.

What connection did the family have to the mutant shortage?

 

[Tosk]

What connection did the family have to the mutant shortage?

I can answer that...the land around theirs was purchased by a company that makes corn syrup. Part of the mutant-control method was through food. Said foods included drinks. Drinks that use corn syrup.

I can't tell you why that's laughably improbable though.