Babylon 5: 20 years later

[Asbo Zaprudder]

My understanding is that all the CGI was rendered 4:3 -- that's why it looks crappy when cropped to 16:9 on the DVDs. The live action was framed for both 4:3 and 16:9 but any composite of CGI and live action would only be rendered as 4:3 and it is also cropped on the DVDs. I would have preferred that WB had left the show in 4:3 on the DVDs.

 

[Bella Cullen]

This thread makes me feel so old.

 

[tomswift2002]

I thought the CGI WAS shot 4:3, and the live action was shot 16:9.

The CGI was created in 4:3 (even though the Video Toaster software that was being used was capable of creating true NTSC widescreen, but because no one wanted to pay for a $5000 NTSC widescreen monitor in the 90's, which would've added about an extra $75 cost to each episode, the CGI was done in 4:3) because that was the standard at the time, and the show was edited in NTSC 4:3, and the CGI was rendered out to NTSC 4:3. But there were 3 masters created at the time: NTSC 4:3, PAL 4:3 and PAL 16:9. But the PAL 16:9 masters featured the cropped 16:9 CGI (and the non-CGI elements were transferred in full 16:9 from the original film to the PAL tapes), and it is these masters that were used for the DVD's and digital files.

So for the NTSC DVD's we have CGI that was originally exported in 4:3 to 30-frame NTSC videotape, that was then cropped and zoomed in to 16:9 and converted to 25-frame PAL videotape (which has a higher resolution than NTSC), and then reconverted to NTSC.

So when I say that the VHS tapes look better for their CGI, it is because the VHS tapes are using copies of the NTSC 4:3 masters (or for the PAL market, the 4:3 PAL masters).

 

[Forbin]

Wow! Such a convoluted path those effects followed to the DVDs!

 

[MANT!]

This thread makes me feel so old.

Hmm.. perhaps we have outlived our usefulness.. NAHHHH!

Or perhaps it just reminds me of my days in the prime of life, young parent, new career etc...

Hence my re-watching the series about once a year..(nice to own the entire set and Crusade) It just seems so...90s
the hairstyles, the manner of speaking (little catchphrases of the times they were written always creep into TV shows )
Even the uniform designs just happen to have that 90s vibe.. (Seaquest has that too).. The 90s were a good time for me for the most part, and this show (with others) reminds me of those good times..
The CGI effects, though laughable by today's standards, still hold up well enough to keep the story rolling..
and it's just fun all around..

 

[MacLeod]

The CGI was created in 4:3 (even though the Video Toaster software that was being used was capable of creating true NTSC widescreen, but because no one wanted to pay for a $5000 NTSC widescreen monitor in the 90's, which would've added about an extra $75 cost to each episode, the CGI was done in 4:3) because that was the standard at the time, and the show was edited in NTSC 4:3, and the CGI was rendered out to NTSC 4:3. But there were 3 masters created at the time: NTSC 4:3, PAL 4:3 and PAL 16:9. But the PAL 16:9 masters featured the cropped 16:9 CGI (and the non-CGI elements were transferred in full 16:9 from the original film to the PAL tapes), and it is these masters that were used for the DVD's and digital files.

So for the NTSC DVD's we have CGI that was originally exported in 4:3 to 30-frame NTSC videotape, that was then cropped and zoomed in to 16:9 and converted to 25-frame PAL videotape (which has a higher resolution than NTSC), and then reconverted to NTSC.

So when I say that the VHS tapes look better for their CGI, it is because the VHS tapes are using copies of the NTSC 4:3 masters (or for the PAL market, the 4:3 PAL masters).

If WS wasn't the norm why did they bother creating a PAL 16:9 master?

 

[Jan]

If WS wasn't the norm why did they bother creating a PAL 16:9 master?

Weird are the ways of WB.

 

[MacLeod]

Weird are the ways of WB.

Or perhaps it's because in the PAL region WS TV's were becoming more common as were WS VHS tapes in the mid-ninties.

 

[tomswift2002]

If WS wasn't the norm why did they bother creating a PAL 16:9 master?

According to the B5 Scrolls website, it might've aired in Europe in WS (possible Portugal) from as early as 1993).

But overall, the idea was to create a master that could be used when WS TV's became popular.

 

[MacLeod]

According to the B5 Scrolls website, it might've aired in Europe in WS (possible Portugal) from as early as 1993).

But overall, the idea was to create a master that could be used when WS TV's became popular.

But if that was the case why did they never bother with an NTSC 16:9 master? I think it goes back to the fact they could sell a PAL 16:9 master so could justify the cost but couldn't sell a NTSC 16:9 master so couln't justify the cost.

Even before I had a WS TV, I would buy VHS tapes in WS. It just seemed the right way to watch it.

 

[tomswift2002]

But if that was the case why did they never bother with an NTSC 16:9 master? I think it goes back to the fact they could sell a PAL 16:9 master so could justify the cost but couldn't sell a NTSC 16:9 master so couln't justify the cost.

PAL has always had a higher resolution than NTSC, so going to PAL, especially for the live-action-only sequences made sense, plus PAL's 25-frame-per-second is a lot closer to film's 24 frames-per-second frame rate. So the PAL master could always be used for any future NTSC copies.

I've noticed PAL's advantages on other NTSC DVD's as well. If you look at The Muppet Show DVD's, for a late-1970's show shot on video, it looks a lot better than other shows of the era that were shot on NTSC video tape, because The Muppet Show was shot and edited on PAL videotape. PAL has always been considered to be higher quality than NTSC.

 

[Jan]

Sorry to report that Stephen Furst's sons have posted to his Facebook page that Stephen passed away yesterday due to complications of diabetes. RIP, sir. And thank you for your work.

Stephen Furst

Actor and comedian Stephen Furst died on June 16, 2017 due to complications from diabetes.

Steve has a long list of earthly accomplishments. He was known to the world as an brilliant and prolific actor and filmmaker, but to his family and many dear friends he was also a beloved husband, father and kind friend whose memory will always be a blessing.

To truly honor him, do not cry for the loss of Stephen Furst. But rather, enjoy memories of all the times he made you snicker, laugh, or even snort to your own embarrassment. He intensely believed that laugher is the best therapy, and he would want us to practice that now.

If you knew him personally, remember his gift for lighting up a room. And no matter who you are, when you think of Steve, instead of being sad, celebrate his life by watching one of his movies or use one of his bits to make someone else laugh - really, really hard.

Sincerely,

His sons Nathan and Griffith Furst

 

[Gary Mitchell]

 

[tomswift2002]

Wow! Another cast member gone. I think that leaves just Boxleitner, Furlann, Jurassic, Christianson, Tallman and Mummy as the only main cast members still living.

 

[Forbin]

Also Andrea Thompson and Julie Caitlin Brown. I assume Mr. Mordon is still kicking?

 

[Forbin]

From Claudia's Facebook today: "Lunch with the girls."

 

[tomswift2002]

Also Andrea Thompson and Julie Caitlin Brown. I assume Mr. Mordon is still kicking?

Those three were more special guest stars than regular cast members.

But still out of the 3 sci-do shows that debuted in 93 (Babylon 5, DS9, seaQuest) DS9 is the only one to still have all its regular cast members alive.