Spoilers Supergirl - Season 2

[Awesome Possum]

....aanndd...



Caught in yet another lie.

Nope. I said I didn't call anyone sexist, just their posts. So if you understand the English language, it clearly implies I meant no one here. Especially since you kept insisting I was calling people here sexist.

But that doesn't mean that sexists don't exist. Although you keep insisting that only women can be sexist against men for some perplexing reason. Although if we took a poll, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be the one labeled a sexist.

If you support misandrist ideology or practice, the charge tends to stick to you.

And if you keep ranting about about how Supergirl is unfair to men, the charge tends to stick to you as well.

But I clearly don't hate men since I haven't said anything that anyone reasonable could consider hateful. Unless you're so sensitive and insecure that even pointing out that men can be sexist and daring to question them is sexist.

Additionally, you have spent pages insulting members with "panties in a bunch" and...

What's wrong with panties? It's underwear, grow up.

...among other things, all because you cannot stand anyone exposing the agenda of this series' showrunners, and the offensive message it sends. In fact, you've mocked any offense to it, so enough with the buckets of hypocritical behavior you pour over this thread.

The agenda that women are equal and can be superior to men is someways? How awful. Men had it hard enough controlling governments, business, religion, media and society. Now Supergirl is implying bad things about them. It must be so awful for you.

Of course I've mocked it, it deserves mockery. Leave your basement and go tell some stranger about how awful it is that Supergirl is saying bad things about men and count the milliseconds before they openly laugh at you.

Aside from your never ending insults, you're still ignoring examples in film and TV that stand in opposition to your sweeping fantasy.

Well I do have better things to do with my life than obsessively catalog bad things happening to men in shitty sitcoms.

And "limited to Supergirl?" There's been this kind of abusive treatment in one form or another in TV for (at least) thirty years, usually known as the "stupid man / smart woman" or "stupid husband / smart wife" pattern on some of the most highly visible U.S. series of the past generation, such as (for a few examples) Married...with Children, Everybody Loves Raymond, Scrubs and The King of Queens among many series. In every case, the man (or men) is either a man-child, dullard in the extreme, or a whiner who needs to be routinely insulted about every element of his being. That the long running examples were not only approved but were so aggressively marketed by their networks meant that mistreatment of men was encouraged as a routine part of TV production, all packaged for consumption by millions.

It's a TV trope that's existed since the dawn of TV and commonly written entirely by men, produced by men, directed by men and watched by men.

Continue to deny it. Continue to pretend that in inequality felt from one side means it must be returned in some childish, tit for tat manner, when that stands as the polar opposite of any serious desire to achieve equality. All it says is that some are interested in revenge, not erasing societal sins.

Have you ever driven through a parking lot and saw a handicap spot only to get angry because you can't park there? Because based on your obsession with this drop in the bucket because you want the entire ocean, I really think you do.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

If I may get my two cents in.

There are some examples of men being put down on the show, especially by Cat Grant. But I'm making some allowance for that.

For one, sexism, and systemic sexism especially, is a very complex matter, as even feminist icons like Gloria Steinem can fall into the trap of making a sexist comment (like when she said on Bill Maher's show last year that young women supporting Bernie Sanders over Hillary Clinton were just doing so to get the boys), or, another example from the same area, Madeline Albright's "special place in hell" comment. So, as even experienced feminist icons can be at times sexist (and most probably without meaning to be), it goes to show just how ingrained sexism is in this system, and it's too complex to really deeply go into on a family superhero show like Supergirl.
While grown-up fans are one of the target audience, another (and probably more important) one are young girls in their pre- and early teens, and as such Supergirl has to work as a role model for them, and be able to communicate with them.

So, in-depth analysis of systemic sexism is not, nor should it be, presented on this show. But it features feminism in a more empowering form. Here's a young woman who uses her extraordinary talents to help people, and while she does so, she experiences some sexism (because otherwise the show would be dishonest), and she has to stand up to it.

And that's pretty much it. There are variations of that formula, but that's pretty much how the show presents its feminism.

Now, as for the mentioned examples of men being put down on the show: While they are there, they're not quite as blatant and/or numerous as some people here like to see it. And there are examples given which simply are not true.
One of these is the accusation of a double standart regarding Jimmy/Guardian and Maggie. No, they are not on the same level, and it is understandable that Jimmy is criticized for going after super-powered combatants while Maggie is not. Yes, Jimmy has a history of being Superman's pal, but that's not exactly combat experience. On the other hand, Maggie is not only a trained policewoman, she also is shown from her introduction on to be quite familiar with aliens and superpowered people. Remember, she was the one who introduced the gang to the alien bar. She clearly has had to deal with alien criminals prior to her getting involved with Alex and the DEO.

And as for the Cat Grant comments, nobody should take them as the "agenda of the producers". Cat has been shown to be deeply flawed in the past, as well as having a tendency to go hyperbole. So, anybody taking serious offense at her comments about "measuring dicks" and such is watching the show with their very own agenda.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Nope. I said I didn't call anyone sexist, just their posts. So if you understand the English language, it clearly implies I meant no one here. Especially since you kept insisting I was calling people here sexist.

Posts do not come out of thin air--they are the written expression of thought, so you are calling the members sexist. Rather desperate of you to play this game, but it is not at all surprising.

But I clearly don't hate men since I haven't said anything that anyone reasonable could consider hateful. Unless you're so sensitive and insecure that even pointing out that men can be sexist and daring to question them is sexist.

Your many posts in this thread stand as evidence of your misandrist agenda--how you believe mistreatment of male characters should be tolerated, because, you know...reasons (nonsensical).


What's wrong with panties? It's underwear, grow up.[/quote]

Take your own advice and refrain from constantly attacking members over a TV series. Yeah, yeah, you will deny that, but as noted earlier, your posts stand as evidence.

The agenda that women are equal and can be superior to men is someways? How awful. Men had it hard enough controlling governments, business, religion, media and society. Now Supergirl is implying bad things about them. It must be so awful for you.

As predicted--you're not defending an attempt at equality, since this series does not practice or present that. You do believe mistreatment of male characters as seen on SG is justified and should be promoted. You are advocating the opposite of equality every step of the way, hence the reason you will never recognize productions where misandrist & misogynistic scripts and/or characters are not tolerated--such productions are not one-sided and attacking, therefore it does not fit the agenda.

Of course I've mocked it, it deserves mockery. Leave your basement and go tell some stranger about how awful it is that Supergirl is saying bad things about men and count the milliseconds before they openly laugh at you.

Ah, ever the sign of one with no point--childish insults. Really, at this point, you are doing the misandrists of the world a serious disservice by going on and on as you do with such thin skin.

Well I do have better things to do with my life than obsessively catalog bad things happening to men in shitty sitcoms.

Apparently not, since you're here--page after page after page, defending a TV series, spinning history, spewing your agenda and flaming members. What was that abut having better things to do?

 

[BillJ]

...spewing your agenda...

This is the definition of the pot calling the kettle black. What exactly do you think you've been doing? "Poor downtrodden white men, why is TV so mean to us?!?"

It would be funny if it wasn't so sad. Maybe you need a safe space?

 

[Awesome Possum]

Posts do not come out of thin air--they are the written expression of thought, so you are calling the members sexist. Rather desperate of you to play this game, but it is not at all surprising.

Who are you trying to convince, me and everyone else or yourself?

Your many posts in this thread stand as evidence of your misandrist agenda--how you believe mistreatment of male characters should be tolerated, because, you know...reasons (nonsensical).

Sounds more like paranoia to me.

Take your own advice and refrain from constantly attacking members over a TV series. Yeah, yeah, you will deny that, but as noted earlier, your posts stand as evidence.

Yet you keep attacking me by calling me a misandrist. You're lucky I don't report it as flaming, but I'm not so sensitive about insults.

As predicted--you're not defending an attempt at equality, since this series does not practice or present that. You do believe mistreatment of male characters as seen on SG is justified and should be promoted. You are advocating the opposite of equality every step of the way, hence the reason you will never recognize productions where misandrist & misogynistic scripts and/or characters are not tolerated--such productions are not one-sided and attacking, therefore it does not fit the agenda.

You don't understand equality at all.

Ah, ever the sign of one with no point--childish insults. Really, at this point, you are doing the misandrists of the world a serious disservice by going on and on as you do with such thin skin.

I'm the one with thin skin? You're whining about Supergirl.

Apparently not, since you're here--page after page after page, defending a TV series, spinning history, spewing your agenda and flaming members. What was that abut having better things to do?

Why don't you be a man and debate me in TNZ instead of dragging out redpill nonsense and constantly derailing this thread?

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

This is the definition of the pot calling the kettle black. What exactly do you think you've been doing? "Poor downtrodden white men, why is TV so mean to us?!?"

You're so hostile about what fits your narrow view, that you assume anyone analyzing this must be white.

No one told you their race, so it begs the question: why do you assume the race of members?

Fascinating.

 

[BillJ]

You're so hostile about what fits your narrow view, that you assume anyone analyzing this must be white.

No one told you their race, so it begs the question: why do you assume the race of members?

Fascinating.

That was the best you could come back with?

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Who are you trying to convince, me and everyone else or yourself?

You entered this thread only few days ago to spew your typical insults, so spare the avoidance of your own issues. It's no surprise to anyone familiar with your posts in other forums around here.

Yet you keep attacking me by calling me a misandrist. You're lucky I don't report it as flaming, but I'm not so sensitive about insults.

Now who is being paranoid? Misandrist is not an insult but an accepted description of a behavior, action or belief system. Significant difference between that and your pages of insults not in the realm of relevant observation.

You don't understand equality at all.

Another dodge, as you cannot possibly (and honestly) address your support of mistreatment of males and still claim to be an advocate of equality.

I'm the one with thin skin? You're whining about Supergirl.

You're the one who recently entered this thread to attack other members, then play "don't insult me" the moment you were called out on your behavior. Yes, I would say that's thin skinned, Awesome Possum.

Why don't you be a man and debate me in TNZ instead of dragging out redpill nonsense and constantly derailing this thread?

This discussion was going on long before you derailed it with your insults. You've barely posted a complete sentence about the details of the show from both seasons, along with rational comparisons to other comic adaptations. Instead, you turned this thread into your personal platform. Oh, but now you--of all people--are accusing anyone of derailing a thread.

So very sad. Yes, I expect you to jump back in with more of the same.

 

[theenglish]

Everyone understands that another thread has been started because you all have completely derailed this one, right? And you never even tried to respond to my question that actually dealt with the series.

 

[Mudd]

BEWARE THE POWER OF THE HEAT RAT!!!

I'm culturally appropriating this image.

You've been warned.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Everyone understands that another thread has been started because you all have completely derailed this one, right? And you never even tried to respond to my question that actually dealt with the series.

His only concern is the sad plight of men on Supergirl.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The men on Supergrl.

James. In love with Kara, and likes her in charge. Homosexual undertones, since the girl he is into, is practically the twin of his best friend who may not be bi, but is married. Jimmy is using Kara to finally #### Clark, which is why he makes her leave the cape on when they make out.

J'on J'onz. Adopted father figure. Proud that she's so fierce.

Maxwell Lord. Thrown into space by Supergirl. Irrelevant.

Win. See Jimmy. Ditto. Although Jimmy is in love with Clark, because Clark beats up his bad dad for him. Wish fulfilment.

Superman. Loves his cousin like a daughter, who he was raising her to be decent, but she's a finished product and he is proud of the woman that he helped make... I saw something yesterday "Don't fight your dad for real. Don't. You may be think that you are younger, tougher, and stronger, so you can take him, but they have been waiting for this fight, and figuring out how to destroy you since the day you were born."

Mon-El. Loves her. Doesn't mind Kara in charge. Also he's heavily anaesthetized by constantly lawfully seeing his girlfriend naked, which is half of what Rhea was on about.

Lar-Gand (Mon-El's Dad) It's bad to be king.

UM?

Is that it?

Non. A thug who diddled a blue robot hours after his wife died. Moving along.

Barry Allen is a mentally handicapped child, who thinks that he is the centre of the universe... Which may be true since he has created several universes (alternate timelines). He does keep trying to prove that he is the fastest man alive, but even if she beats him in every race, Barry Allen is still the fasted man alive.

Oliver Queen is still trying to lock down how to kill her, just because, which is what he does after meeting every meta or alien after being alerted to their existence. That's primal respect.

Snapper Car tells Kara that she is an idiot and is waiting for her to stop being a consummate millennial. He is intolerant of young people, not women.

Jerry Danvers. Daddies don't count. He loves all his daughters the same.



I think the men on Supergirl are fine with the status quo.

 

[Tuskin38]

I broke my promise

Nope. I said I didn't call anyone sexist, just their posts.

I don't understand the difference, the post is the person's opinion, so if the post is sexist, wouldn't the person be sexist because they had that opinion?

 

[Jayson1]

If I may get my two cents in.

There are some examples of men being put down on the show, especially by Cat Grant. But I'm making some allowance for that.

For one, sexism, and systemic sexism especially, is a very complex matter, as even feminist icons like Gloria Steinem can fall into the trap of making a sexist comment (like when she said on Bill Maher's show last year that young women supporting Bernie Sanders over Hillary Clinton were just doing so to get the boys), or, another example from the same area, Madeline Albright's "special place in hell" comment. So, as even experienced feminist icons can be at times sexist (and most probably without meaning to be), it goes to show just how ingrained sexism is in this system, and it's too complex to really deeply go into on a family superhero show like Supergirl.
While grown-up fans are one of the target audience, another (and probably more important) one are young girls in their pre- and early teens, and as such Supergirl has to work as a role model for them, and be able to communicate with them.

So, in-depth analysis of systemic sexism is not, nor should it be, presented on this show. But it features feminism in a more empowering form. Here's a young woman who uses her extraordinary talents to help people, and while she does so, she experiences some sexism (because otherwise the show would be dishonest), and she has to stand up to it.

And that's pretty much it. There are variations of that formula, but that's pretty much how the show presents its feminism.

Now, as for the mentioned examples of men being put down on the show: While they are there, they're not quite as blatant and/or numerous as some people here like to see it. And there are examples given which simply are not true.
One of these is the accusation of a double standart regarding Jimmy/Guardian and Maggie. No, they are not on the same level, and it is understandable that Jimmy is criticized for going after super-powered combatants while Maggie is not. Yes, Jimmy has a history of being Superman's pal, but that's not exactly combat experience. On the other hand, Maggie is not only a trained policewoman, she also is shown from her introduction on to be quite familiar with aliens and superpowered people. Remember, she was the one who introduced the gang to the alien bar. She clearly has had to deal with alien criminals prior to her getting involved with Alex and the DEO.

And as for the Cat Grant comments, nobody should take them as the "agenda of the producers". Cat has been shown to be deeply flawed in the past, as well as having a tendency to go hyperbole. So, anybody taking serious offense at her comments about "measuring dicks" and such is watching the show with their very own agenda.

I agree with just about everything you said. My only gripe is I feel like "Buffy" and "Xena" did this but only better. I think the show has even more potential than what it has shown.
PLus the catchphrase are a little tired at this time. Everyone is doing them by now. Plus Superman loosing bothers the nerd in me more than the man in me. The part of me that likes humor though wants them to take it even futher. Imagine if next season Superman is forced to be Kara's manservant. He has to stay home and watch Krypto while she fights crime.

Jason

 

[Trekkin]

I broke my promise


I don't understand the difference, the post is the person's opinion, so if the post is sexist, wouldn't the person be sexist because they had that opinion?

You can write posts about sexist opinions, without expressing your opinion. If someone does happens to cross the line into the latter, then too fucking bad. For them.

And quiet frankly: if we can't criticise people's personal opinions, then there's no use having the board at all. There'd be nothing to say.

 

[Tosk]

if we can't criticise people's personal opinions, then there's no use having the board at all. There'd be nothing to say.

Sure there would be. It's a discussion board, not a criticism board.

 

[Guy Gardener]

It's lawyerese to protect freedom.

People can be a weirdly mercurially misunderstood liar, but their posts have no soul, and therefore fair game.

By this logic however Book burning is A-OK, but the salient measure is that it's easier to change an asshole's mind without calling that asshole an asshole.

 

[Trekkin]

Sure there would be. It's a discussion board, not a criticism board.

Endless refrains of 'so say we all' is a discussion?

I need to change my answer in the Hell thread. I think I just found it.

It's lawyerese to protect freedom.

People can be weirdly mercurial misunderstood liars, but posts have no soul.

By this logic however Book burning is A-OK...

Not really.

Book burning isn't really about protesting the content of a book. It's to ensure no one is ever exposed to the ideas at all. Which is why it's usually accompanied by the author being dead, exiled, or ill-intent that author will soon to be dead/exiled.

Criticism and protesting does the opposite. It purposefully draws attention to someone/something, with the intent of that spotlight being as bright and permanent as possible.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

I agree with just about everything you said. My only gripe is I feel like "Buffy" and "Xena" did this but only better. I think the show has even more potential than what it has shown.

I can't speak for Xena, as I haven't watched that show, but Buffy already has a different main target audience, which are teenagers, high school and upwards. The themes Buffy deals with, especially in the first few seasons, are all about the issues and troubles of adolecence. So that speaks directly to people of that age. Supergirl on the other hand has to work for kids even younger than that, so it's not entirely fair to compare the two shows on messaging.

That said, I'd be a fool not to agree that there is room for improvement.

PLus the catchphrase are a little tired at this time. Everyone is doing them by now.

If you're talking about the liberal dogwhistles like "Resist" and such, I agree that they're too on the nose for a grown-up audience, and younger kids won't really know what to take from them. Not too mention that they feel a bit superficial here, and they don't really work as a metaphor. Someone said that Rhea was a stand-in for Trump in the finale. But if we take that metaphor at face value, the message seems to be that the good guys have to work with the racists to take down the "Trump", and immediately the metaphor falls apart. If they wouldn't use those anti-Trump dogwhistles and instead focused on the general themes, I think it would work much better, and it wouldn't feel dated in just a few years.[/QUOTE]

 

[Trekkin]

If they wouldn't use those anti-Trump dogwhistles and instead focused on the general themes, I think it would work much better, and it wouldn't feel dated in just a few years.

Or it could find new relevance. There will always be some dickhead waiting in the wings, pulling the same old shit.

There's a reason The Handmaid's Tale has recently had such a faithful adaptation, in spite of originally being a response to a very specific context.