It's not. It's just that reshoots alone are so routine that it's not really evidence of anything one way or the other, except that the film has a high enough budget to indulge in them.
WB's Justice League 2017 movie pre-discussion thread
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It's not. It's just that reshoots alone are so routine that it's not really evidence of anything one way or the other, except that the film has a high enough budget to indulge in them.
With the Arwen thing, online reaction did actually change the course of the film, but only insofar as it prompted them to find a better avenue of storytelling, which in and of itself is neither unusual or a bad thing.
Looking through the thread I don't see anyone offering anything but condolences over what happened and everyone seems to be showing restraint about their thoughts of Snyder and the movies while still discussing how the film might be impacted by the changeover. I don't know, I really don't see anything wrong here.
It's excessive when you feel the need to explain to everyone how the creative process works, despite a half-dozen people, including the person you quoted, saying, essentially, "Yep, reshoots are normal, nothing to see here." Instead, you felt the need to talk about how your writing process works. That's not discussion, that's lecturing.
In the scene where Théoden leads the charge out of Helm's Deep and into the Uruk-hai, you can see that there are two Legolases in the group of riders. They CGI'd a second Legolas over Arwen. And you can see Arwen in the background of a couple of the close-ups on Aragorn when Gandalf and Éomer arrive.
EDIT: Actually, after finding a clip on YouTube, they didn't even go that far. They just digitally recolored Arwen's hair to blonde and her clothes to green.
Producer Charles Roven was asked about Justice League at the Wonder Woman premiere:
https://twitter.com/Variety/status/867917131437948934
If anyone knows what it's like to have someone come in and mess with your movie in a way you don't want, it's Joss, so I don't doubt he'll be respectful to Zack's vision.
https://twitter.com/Variety/status/867917131437948934
If anyone knows what it's like to have someone come in and mess with your movie in a way you don't want, it's Joss, so I don't doubt he'll be respectful to Zack's vision.
Well, the fact that Joss was already working on some scenes, and the fact that Snyder seems to have been reigned in somewhat since Geoff Johns got a big roll in the film side of DC and WB apparently decided they didn't like the reviews of Snyder's other stuff, means that I still think we're getting a Justice League that is more heroic, optimistic and less Snyder-ish then we would gotten if Snyder was doing everything he wanted like in his first two DCEU films.
But, I agree that Whedon taking over at the end won't effect the final product all that much compared to what we would have gotten if Snyder had kept working, especially at this point in production.
But, I agree that Whedon taking over at the end won't effect the final product all that much compared to what we would have gotten if Snyder had kept working, especially at this point in production.
It might not be fully Whdeonized...but sometimes just 1 or 2 scenes can make a difference in a movie..or maybe just lodge a feeling in there. For example, there are two scenes that, if deleted, wouldn't have changed Avengers one bit (well, one tiny thing)...but they are some of the most memorable and left me feeling "Whedon REALLY understands what it means to bring a comic book to life" Those are of course the 2 Hulk vs. Asgardian scenes (the sudden punch to Thor and the slapping around of Loki)
On the negative side... The Last Samurai was actually a good movie...had they ended it with Tom Cruise being the last Samurai for 3 minutes (i.e. dying on the battlefield), it would have been a great movie. But those last 3 minutes where it was revealed he was in fact alive -- that just ruined it. And that could have been a last minutes edit.
Whedon can't make Justice League into Avengers, but I hope he drops something that will make us believe that the DC Film Universe really DOES understand what we like about DC heroes.
I am very sorry for the Snyders' loss, and they are doing the right thing as a parent.
It's unfortunate they had to go public... but when one is in charge of a multimillion dollar project that could affect billions of dollars (from merchandising to future films), it's hard to avoid. Shutting down production 00 without this context -- would be worrisome. So knowing the truth makes the situation understandable and not worrisome...and the Snyders should be given all the privacy they need right now.
I am risking being insensitive...after the 2 week break, do we know if they attempted to finish the movie, and just came to the conclusion they couldn't, or were they at that point just setting up the anticipated transition?
On the negative side... The Last Samurai was actually a good movie...had they ended it with Tom Cruise being the last Samurai for 3 minutes (i.e. dying on the battlefield), it would have been a great movie. But those last 3 minutes where it was revealed he was in fact alive -- that just ruined it. And that could have been a last minutes edit.
Whedon can't make Justice League into Avengers, but I hope he drops something that will make us believe that the DC Film Universe really DOES understand what we like about DC heroes.
I am very sorry for the Snyders' loss, and they are doing the right thing as a parent.
It's unfortunate they had to go public... but when one is in charge of a multimillion dollar project that could affect billions of dollars (from merchandising to future films), it's hard to avoid. Shutting down production 00 without this context -- would be worrisome. So knowing the truth makes the situation understandable and not worrisome...and the Snyders should be given all the privacy they need right now.
I am risking being insensitive...after the 2 week break, do we know if they attempted to finish the movie, and just came to the conclusion they couldn't, or were they at that point just setting up the anticipated transition?
The movie wrapped shooting last year. It's currently in post-production and being edited together, with reshoots planned. The Snyders would have to have been invovled in that process and promoting (giving interviews, going on talk shows and making public appearances/premieres) in the run up to it's Novemeber release date. Given their family tragedy, I can imagine them not being up for most of that. You want to do your job to the best of your ability, but sometimes, other things are important. WB did offer to push the movie's release date back, to give the Snyders time to grieve, but they declined.
Reigned in? God, I'm so disgusted to read this.
And there goes my chance of really enjoying any future DCEU films if WB suits like Geoff Johns want directors like Synder to conform to some rigid narrative formula for comic book movies.
It seems as if society has lost any sense of originality or willingness to take chances. I suspect that today’s movie audiences, television viewers or book readers do not want anyone to try something new or challenging. Instead, a lot of people have become so ridiculously conformist.
"Do you know what happens when a parademon is struck by the speed force?"
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Calm down. The comment you're reacting to is not factually based, and is in reality contravened by the facts.
I don't think I would ever describe Geoff Johns as a "suit" even though that's technically his official job.
The man's a writer and a walking DC encyclopedia first.
And a fan of Zack Snyder.
It should be added that these reshoots have been in the pipeline for a while now, they're only getting around to them now because most of the cast is working on other projects and it was difficult to arrange a schedule that can catch all the people that needed to be there at the same time.
Most of the work is already done, and since Snyder also storyboards his movies himself I think it's safe to say Joss has a pretty detailed visual guide of what still needs to be done, so the end result isn't going to end up being much different.
I'm sure that's not gonna stop some people from claiming that everything that ends up good in Justice League is Joss, and everything bad is Zack, because people are already doing that...
What intrigues me is, I thought Joss said he was done with big Hollywood productions for a while? I know that in comparison to doing a whole movie like JL, taking over for the end stretch is not as huge an undetaking as doing the whole movie, but still....
In any case, I totally get Zack's choice to get back to his family and take care of them, himself and eachother. I've seen upclose what a horribly, young death does to a family, it's not pretty. I truly wish him and them all the best in the world.
In any case, I totally get Zack's choice to get back to his family and take care of them, himself and eachother. I've seen upclose what a horribly, young death does to a family, it's not pretty. I truly wish him and them all the best in the world.
As for public opinion on the movie, I'm afraid Snyder is now going to lose in the public opinion, no matter what. If the movie sucks, they'll say it's his fault. If it rocks, they'll say it's because of Whedon.
Though he most likely doesn't care. He made the right decision.
Though he most likely doesn't care. He made the right decision.
Except that we know Johns got his roll in the movies, and that WB didn't like the review scores (even if the movies were still profitable). Also, the JL trailer was pretty anti-Snyder, with actual humor and a lot less murder.
I'm sure it will have his same terrible style visually (muted colors and an amount of green screen shooting that would make Prequels era Lucas say "Maybe you should actually film something practically or on location"), but I really, really doubt we'll get a third movie about angsty murderers in costumes now that Johns is around and WB seems to want to make the movies get received better. I don't know if it will be watchable or bad, but I'm pretty sure we'll see a movie that is purposefully made less like Snyder wants it (depressing and anti-heroic) and more like how Johns/WB seem to want it.
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I don't want it "Whedonized". I hope that Whedon will maintain Synder's vision and if he wants to make some change, he will talk with Synder about it first.
Why is it so damn important to many of you for these films to conform to the usual comic book movie schlock. What are you so afraid of? Are you afraid that Synder is challenging the usual opinions or styles of comic book movies? What is it? Because I'm getting sick and tired of people complaining about how Synder's films are "depressing and anti-heroic". It makes me realize that we've become a society that does not tolerate originality or those who challenge the status quo in real life or in entertainment. We've seemed to have become this rigid and conservative society that demands that our culture and entertainment adhere to the status quo.
And by the way, I understand that Synder's vision will be maintained in the film.
"The Incredible Hulk" and "The Winter Soldier" seemed to adhere to the Snyder formula.
I'd be pretty surprised if that was not the case. Whedon is there to help finish the movie, not to take it over and do whatever he wants with it.