What would be a deal breaker for you in Discovery?

[Refuge]

A show without any kind of political lean automatically supports the status quo.

That makes no sense.. it really doesn't.

 

[Refuge]

No, you just don't want political correctness to "ruin" the show. So it should stick to the default or "normal people", which is straight white men.

You may not understand it, but that is exactly what you are arguing for.

Please don't put your words in my mouth or your hang ups..

 

[BillJ]

Please don't put your words in my mouth or your hang ups..

Possum is right. It is what it is. You're the one that has to live with it.

I like to have my ideas and hangups (which I have many) challenged. Life is little fun when one only eats vanilla ice cream.

 

[Refuge]

I think I might leave you to your convoluted justifications.. peace..

 

[Awesome Possum]

Please don't put your words in my mouth or your hang ups..

Don't blame me for your lack of self-awareness.

You're claiming that the producers by hiring a slightly more diverse cast than usual are prefering political correctness over storytelling. Something that is impossible to tell at this point and I should point out that having a diverse cast does not exclude good storytelling. To the contrary, it opens up new ideas and story possiblities that were not possible before.

I should also point out the political correctness is a scare word for what pretty much amounts to basic human decency.

In the end, if the idea of a diverse cast on Star Trek bothers you then maybe the show isn't for you.

 

[Refuge]

Um.. I will watch what I want and my self awareness is fine thank you.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Um.. I will watch what I want and my self awareness is fine thank you.

I wasn't telling you to not watch it.

 

[BillJ]

Um.. I will watch what I want and my self awareness is fine thank you.

No one said you should watch anything you don't want to watch. But why waste everyones time by complaining about it? Aren't there shows you do like, that you like to discuss with other like minded people?

 

[Nightdiamond]

Ill be devil's advocate for a second, he may be talking about preachiness, particularly in TNG. And it could be grating at times. Especially if the show itself seemed hypocritical about it, like the show saying appearance was one of the last prejudices humans evolved out of, and yet Beverly rejects Odan a few years later for his/her new appearance. Or the Outcast episode.


But...the status quo was getting boring. It Is boring. Heroes now (and have been) are women, people of color, secondary actors and so on. Tyrion Lannister is THE star of Game of Thrones.

The status quo format is one of the things that almost bought the franchise down to a certain degree, imo. In the grand scheme of things, in a world of diversity and freedom, there's bound to be two women who command the ship.

I've always been fascinated by women who commanded on Trek, wish I could have maw it more.

 

[BillJ]

...and yet Beverly rejects Odan a few years later for his/her new appearance.

Just because we openly accept everyone doesn't mean each person wouldn't have their individual turn-ons and turn-offs, nor should it.

It might be that Crusher simply doesn't swing that way. Though, I always thought her rejection was more about it being the third body that the symbiont has had in the week-and-a-half that Crusher has known Odan.

CRUSHER: Perhaps it is a human failing, but we are not accustomed to these kinds of changes. I can't keep up. How long will you have this host? What would the next one be? I can't live with that kind of uncertainty. Perhaps, someday, our ability to love won't be so limited

 

[{ Emilia }]

Please don't put your words in my mouth or your hang ups..

What exactly is your problem then?
I honestly don't know. I've asked you to clarify.

1) There is no indication whatsoever that hints at diversity being more important than good stories. We don't even know much about the stories at this point, because they obviously won't spoil anything now.
2) diversity and good stories are not mutually exclusive.

I guess I just don't know what you're complaining about because there literally is no evidence that supports a bizarre statement like the one you made.

 

[fireproof78]

That makes no sense.. it really doesn't.

How so? Most stories are told from a perspective, usually including a political point of view. If a story isn't challenging a political point of view (conservative, liberal, independent or Martian) then there is an assumption that the current status quo is correct and needs no challenging.

 

[ancient]

How so? Most stories are told from a perspective, usually including a political point of view. If a story isn't challenging a political point of view (conservative, liberal, independent or Martian) then there is an assumption that the current status quo is correct and needs no challenging.

No, this is simply not true. Not advocating a political position is NOT the same as advocating for "the status quo", however much of the universe you want the "status quo" to encompass.

You DO NOT have to express opposition to every ill in the world every time you tell a story or else be accused of supporting it. This is the kind of thinking that political radicals use to justify inserting irrelevant political manifestos everywhere, it's very unhealthy and destructive.

 

[Mudd]

Bottom line: one character like Georgiou or Burnham is worth a couple dozen briefing-room speeches about "IDIC" by a Starfleet white guy:

When the Star Trek: Discovery trailer was first announced, I almost didn't want to watch it. I'm a lifelong fan of the franchise — I grew up on The Next Generation and Star Treks II–VI and I'd followed every up and down of the development of this series (and there have been too many) with breathless anticipation. There were so many delays that it almost didn't seem real anymore...

...I finally worked up the nerve to watch it, though I shouldn't have worried about disappointment. The trailer was, quite simply, spectacular, setting the stage for an exciting new series. I could go into the ins and outs, breaking down the trailer and analyzing each and every scene, character and setting — but that's not why I'm writing this.

This article is about one specific moment in the trailer: when Michelle Yeoh's character, Captain Philippa Georgiou, speaks for the first time.

"It's hard to imagine you've served under me for seven years," she tells First Officer Michael Burnham, played by the exquisite Sonequa Martin-Green, as they walk through a searing desert.

This line might seem innocuous, and it is. But that didn't stop me from bursting into tears the second I heard Yeoh deliver the line. Why?

Because Michelle Yeoh kept her accent.

As a young girl of color, Star Trek was the first place I can remember seeing myself represented. Through characters like Uhura, Sulu and Geordi LaForge, I saw people that looked a little like me — that shared the first thing people notice about me, a darker skin color — and for the first time understood that I could achieve anything, even serve on a starship. I, and people who looked like me, existed in this future. It was one of the major forces that shaped my childhood and the adult I have become.

When they began to announce casting for Star Trek: Discovery, the child in me was thrilled. Not only would one of the starship captains be a woman of color, but she was Asian. Not South Asian like I am — Michelle Yeoh is Chinese Malaysian — but it began to feel like Star Trek was finally embracing the global population Starfleet purported to represent. I was excited.

But still, nothing could have prepared me for the moment when Yeoh utters those first words. I don't know why the decision was made to keep Yeoh’s natural accent — if it was something the actress fought for, or it was designed that way, or even if it was a non-issue — but it mattered to me. You may have seen one person’s reaction to Diego Luna’s accent in Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (a touching story that went viral), and this is similar for me. I personally do not speak English with an accent — I have the bland tones of someone born and raised in the Midwest. But my parents, immigrants to this country, speak with an accent, though they've lived here the bulk of their lives.

All of a sudden, it wasn't about me anymore. My parents, who share my love for Star Trek (even if they were somewhat skeptical of my fervor for it as a child), now have a place in this universe. It's hard to put into words what it feels like to watch a thing you so badly want to love and, all of a sudden, being emotionally devastated (in the best way possible) because they included you in such a seemingly effortless way. When you're used to having to fight for every small morsel of representation you get, having it granted without even having to even ask, and in such a thoughtful way, is overwhelming.

 

[BillJ]

Bottom line: one character like Georgiou or Burnham is worth a couple dozen briefing-room speeches about "IDIC" by a Starfleet white guy:

There goes 65% of Berman Trek!

 

[Mudd]

TOS as well.

Trek has a nearly unbroken history of North American and English actors standing in for characters from all over the globe, often adopting stagey regional accents - fake Russians, fake Scots, a fake Frenchman from Yorkshire. You know, it's important that lots of people of different backgrounds have felt that they could "see themselves" in various Trek characters, but pretty surely the original inspiration and intent of the show's casting was to hold up a flattering mirror to 1960s white American progressives - there will be room for everybody on our ship in the 23rd century, but you know who will still be holding center stage.

 

[BillJ]

TOS as well.

Trek has a nearly unbroken history of North American and English actors standing in for characters from all over the globe, often adopting stagey regional accents - fake Russians, fake Scots, a fake Frenchman from Yorkshire. You know, it's important that lots of people of different backgrounds have felt that they could "see themselves" in various Trek characters, but pretty surely the original inspiration and intent of the show's casting was to hold up a flattering mirror to 1960s white American progressives - there will be room for everybody on our ship in the 23rd century, but you know who will still be holding center stage.

I was talking about the speeches. But, you are right to count TOS as well.

 

[Kor]

fake Russians

Walter Koenig is the son of Russian immigrants.

Kor

 

[Mudd]

Walter Koenig is the son of Russian immigrants.

Kor

I'm the grandson of Germans. So what? I don't speak a word of the language, have never been there and my approximation of a "German accent" is about as bad as Koenig's Russian.

 

[Kor]

I'm the grandson of Germans. So what?

So it's kind of unfair to dismissively label him as a "fake Russian" when he was actually from that immigrant community.

Kor