Robert Beltran complains... forever!
- Thread starter F. King Daniel
- Start date
Note that Lien's statements quoted in that previous post were statements made years after she was kicked out.
Now, if Lien "wanted to leave", then why didn't she came forward at the time of her leaving and stated something like "I'm tired of it so I'm leaving" or simply stated right there and then that she accepted that "her contract wasn't renewed" or what silly excuse those in charge came up with for kicking her out.
What I know, Lien was sad and depressed after being told that she had to leave and the fact that she didn't comment about it for years might be because she was sad and depressed a long time after being kicked out.
Note also that Jeri Taylor and her dear colleagues Berman and Braga first stated that "Jennifer had left of her own free will". Then, when many fans obviously didn't believe that pathetic lie, they came up with another lie which was the pathetic excuse that "we couldn't come up with stories for Kes".
Well, in that case those responsible for coming up with stories about the main characters weren't doing their job and should have been fired, or "Don't have their contracts renewed" or some other stupid way of sugar-coating that she was kicked out when all the others were allowed to stay.
It's also strange that those writers who all of a sudden lost the ability to write for one of the characters actually were capable of coming up with good stories about the same character basically up to the day the character and actress were dumped and in the lovely Mrs. Taylor's case even after the character was singled out as impossible to write for (Star Trek Voyager book "Pathways", written by Jeri Taylor after Kes was dumped).
When asked about it on a convention many years after being kicked out, Lien admitted "Yes, I was fired" which I think sums it up pretty well. OK, anyone who wants can always plays semantics with words like "not having the contract renewed" and the comment "mutual agreement" which is always used when there is foul play involved but the outcome is the same.
The real truth is that those in charge, or at least one of them wanted to "sex up" the show in order to attract male teenage viewers. Wang was supposed to be the victim of that characde but when a silly inside poll among the staff of a glossy magazine presended him among "The 50 most handsome", then the axe fell on Lien instead. Those in charge should have stated it right out instead of trying to cover it up with lies and excuses which a 5 year old kid wouldn't believe.
As for Beltran, I think that he's doing the right thing in criticizing those not so nice people in charge and I admire him for having the guts to do it.
I'm in agreement with you, Lynx, and I'll also say that Kes should have stayed on as a counsellor to the ship like Troi on TNG, helping out Seven to regain her humanity and then eventually falling in love with Seven, leading to Star Trek's first LGBT relationship. Ulitimately, Kes would feel that she'd have to leave the ship to help out her people, and also because of her powers advancing, leaving Seven somewhat heartbroken but enriched by the experience.
As for Berman, Braga, and Taylor, the best that can be said about them is what was said by one poster here on Trek BBS a while back: they're hacks. With regards to Wang, I would've gotten rid of him despite the People magazine article anyway, but I would not kill off Harry Kim; I'd send him back through a wormhole instead, having him reach home before the rest of the crew.
Lynx, I tend to think it did play out that way. I was looking up my favorite ten episodes and in reading Future's End I found an interesting reference.
Here it is.. just from Wiki again.. "Star Trek writer and producer, Bryan Fuller, who began his career on Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, has stated that Brannon Braga, Voyager's co-executive producer, considered making Sarah Silverman a member of the crew on the basis of her acting in this episode. Braga “liked writing for Silverman and the freshness she brought to the Voyager” show plus the possibilities for a Tom Paris romance with her. In the end, Braga abandoned the idea and instead chose Jeri Ryan to join the crew in season 4 of the show". (Pascalle, TrekMovie.com)
That gives me the impression that they always wanted to bring on another female role. That replacing one female with another probably seemed logical. That the Kes character was probably vulnerable to this 'exchange' for a while before the Harry character got his reprieve.
I still think it would have worked keeping Kes and bringing on Seven. They were two different females..
Funny still in reading the notes on Future's End apparently Ed Begley Jr wasn't familiar with Kate Mulgrew but had worked with Robert Beltran twice before. Beltran was the known name to him.
As I said above, I would get rid of Harry Kim, and keep Seven and Kes, as well as bring in Silverman as Robinson beforehand (it would be better for her to be a part of Starfleet and live in the 24th century that her being an agent of the Aegis with Roberta Lincoln in the 20th, IMHO.) And it would give the show a character from the 20th century that would serve as an observer of the 20th century onto the 24th.
I was reading an old thread on here about meeting some of the Stars and Beltran was universally panned as a total and complete asshole, if even half of what I read was true then I have absolutely no respect for him whatsoever.
Honestly, that wouldn't have been a good idea.Lynx, I tend to think it did play out that way. I was looking up my favorite ten episodes and in reading Future's End I found an interesting reference.
Here it is.. just from Wiki again.. "Star Trek writer and producer, Bryan Fuller, who began his career on Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, has stated that Brannon Braga, Voyager's co-executive producer, considered making Sarah Silverman a member of the crew on the basis of her acting in this episode. Braga “liked writing for Silverman and the freshness she brought to the Voyager” show plus the possibilities for a Tom Paris romance with her. In the end, Braga abandoned the idea and instead chose Jeri Ryan to join the crew in season 4 of the show". (Pascalle, TrekMovie.com)
That gives me the impression that they always wanted to bring on another female role. That replacing one female with another probably seemed logical. That the Kes character was probably vulnerable to this 'exchange' for a while before the Harry character got his reprieve.
I still think it would have worked keeping Kes and bringing on Seven. They were two different females..
Funny still in reading the notes on Future's End apparently Ed Begley Jr wasn't familiar with Kate Mulgrew but had worked with Robert Beltran twice before. Beltran was the known name to him
Rain Robinson was a good character for that particular episode but bringing her in as a "blast from the past", I'm not sure that it would have worked that well when the novelty of a 20th century character would have gone away after a couple of episodes.
Besides that, I don't consider Silverman as such a great actress either. Those they already had were much better.
Honestly, I can't understand Braga's way of thinking. They had an excellent cast and excellent characters. Why didn't they use that potential they had instead of starting dabbling with new actors and new characters in the middle of the series. Were they trying to blame their own lack of skill on the actors and characters?
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Funny still in reading the notes on Future's End apparently Ed Begley Jr wasn't familiar with Kate Mulgrew but had worked with Robert Beltran twice before. Beltran was the known name to him
A reminder : Ed Begley Jr., the actor who played the machiavellian but brillant, Henry Starling*, in Future's End, who invented the mobile emitter proudly wore by the Doctor from s3, which allowed him to claim being a sentient hologram.
-> by chance, I saw him yesterday, much younger, playing in an episode of Charlie's Angels & Colombo! :-)
And as seeing as we are talking of chance, did you know that Tim Russ & Robert Picardo have already worked INDIRECTLY with their co-star, Kate Mulgrew? Robert Picardo in Roses are for the Rich (1987) & Tim Russ in Racines: The Gift - alongside with Avery Brooks & LeVar Burton -, in 1987.
I honestly forgot he was a main character for a while, when watching the later seasons. He just seemed so bland.
I feel like Beltran makes some fair points with his critiques but I'm watching Voyager for the first time now (on season 6) and although he is definitely becoming more like 'unnamed crewman number 2', he occasionally gets decent material to work with. But when he does, he is so unbearably wooden, his voice is flat and bored and it makes the viewer bored (not to mention the writers I guess). I want to like his character but it makes it hard...
Yeah well... That's just like... Your opinion man.
I think that Chakotay is a great character and Beltran is doing a good job.
With better writers, Chakotay could have been even better.
Did I ever like...say otherwise man?
He gave a good speech in Distant Origin and didn't do bad in Nemesis.
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