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Voyager fans.. are you disappointed about Discovery?

By the way I did not say that. You asked me a question and I answered "I don't know".

The question was how would you feel living in a society where women were essentially owned by men. Where women were essentially second class citizens.

"My wife, attend."

Just for clarification, that line is from the season two episode "Journey to Babel". It was Sarek speaking to Amanda.
 
When someone makes a claim: "Vulcans are noble", other folks tend to want to know what led one to that conclusion. What did one side see in Vulcans that the other does not? What is missing. It is disappointing when the best one can come up with is: "it's the way I feel".

To respond to your edit I missed earlier. That other poster said more than it is the way they felt. I wrote pages.. it was never going to be enough for someone who doesn't agree. And what would have been wrong about arriving at a feeling anyway?
 
Vulcan society is full of cruel, anachronistic and deeply illogical rituals that do actual damage to those forced to take part in them and those who manage to abstain.

You'd think they find a way to keep the fripperies and ties to the past without the Darwinian horrors.
 
Wonder how Discovery will portray their version of a Vulcan? What mileage will they get if they disrespect any likeness to popular Vulcans that were there first but are to come after in this new made up timeline.

If the Klingon reincarnation (prequel) is an indicator .. not hopeful.
 
We don't know if there are any Vulcans in DIS.

Something I'd kinda dig. There's a lot of underdeveloped species in the Federation, and more in the universe at large. Show them off.

The Vulcans lack of focus certainly didn't hurt TNG any. Spock and Sarek's cameos were probably their most notable appearances, and most of those were for the purpose of facilitating Romulan stories.
 
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To a point I get that. What I find though in reality when another wants clarification they will approach it like this..

So you think Vulcans are noble do you? Really do you think picking your teeth at the dinner table is noble? That (insert something else) is noble? Now already I'm thinking why did I use the picking your teeth at the dinner table as a generic example. Someone is going to get mad at me for implying that they may have said Vulcans pick their teeth and I will have to retract it, lol. Next thing we're all talking about teeth and how obtuse and ridiculous someone is and it becomes a numbers game. How many think one way to how many don't.

So one makes an actual effort to defend their interpretations in their own written style and that still brings on derision. When someone says they would like to understand say, my views about Vulcans, I do try to share them. However sharing invites this need to point by point.. refute. It's the nature of the beast isn't it?
Here's the thing, and I probably missed it, but I never understood your POV on how the Vulcans are noble, or even what that is defined as in the context.

So, as much as I respect that you have opinions, I honestly have no idea what your views actually are, other than "noble."

Secondly, I feel no need to defend how the show portrays cultures. There is something that resonates with a lot of people, myself included, who admire and look up to Spock. But, that, for me, doesn't extend to the whole of Vulcan culture. Spock is incredibly unique, and that brings a lot of depth to it, but the rest of the culture is mixed.

Yes, people will bring point-for-point in shows to defend or refute points. In point of fact, I'm pretty sure that if I take a dig at VOY then specific examples will be brought to bear on my critiques. But, here's the thing, I don't feel a need to refute every point. Some points I just let slide.
 
But, here's the thing, I don't feel a need to refute every point. Some points I just let slide.
Me neither, I just wouldn't have time for it. It's a trick because sometime people get offended you haven't read everything they wrote.

Let me put this up. Do you think the writers not only imparted an impression to us (some/many) but reinforced it with other characters? Characters who at the time of their 'opinions' drew upon similar influences some of us did? Say obviously before later series colored in their detail?

"I thought it was generally accepted, sir, that Vulcans are an advanced and most honorable race."
"They are, they are – and damned annoying at times."
"Yes, sir."
– Data and Leonard McCoy, 2364 ("Encounter at Farpoint")

How come Data can say that and it's okay?
 
To be blunt, who say's its ok because Data said so? Why does his opinion hold more weight?

I think the Vulcans have a sense of nobility, yes, but that it's not the only part of their culture I focus on. In point of fact, Spock, the preeminent Vulcan, continually moves further and further away from the rigidity of his culture. I honestly think that is the point that Nimoy wanted to convey-that as advanced as the Vulcans were, there were some things they simply couldn't answer for him.
 
Well he is part of the actual universe this is all based on..

It's not so much that Data went with the honor angle. If he had said that Vulcans were scum my curiosity would be the same. When the writers give a character an insight or opinion they are making it part of the story and its development. For whatever reason Data who knows alot, probably knows the cultural aspects of many species went with that component. In this case honor, to make a generalisation about Vulcans. He didn't go for one of the other aspects. McCoy agrees.

I think that is telling.
 
To be blunt, who say's its ok because Data said so? Why does his opinion hold more weight?

For whatever reason Data who knows alot, probably knows the cultural aspects of many species went with that component.

Data literally doesn't understand emotions, or human behaviour. In Season One, he's barely aware of some as concepts. 'Honour' (which is both those things) is one of the few things he explicitly wouldn't 'know' .

Plus, TNG is 200 years after ENT. A culture can change a lot in 200 years. Vulcans had a cultural revolution during ENT, and that only covered, what...three years, exempting the finale?
 
Data was conveying something .. he sourced if from somewhere. And McCoy backs him with emotion with what he adds .. " they are, they are.. " (And he did say they were annoying at times). I don't know if I would dismiss Data as a source whether he feels something or whether he understands the feelings or not.. he shared his data on the subject.

That's actually one of my points. The dialogue written for say Data was with an understanding prior to what a prequel added later.

Just one of those circular things that prequels can do.
 
Data was conveying something .. he sourced if from somewhere.

He was parroting. It's not quiet the same as 'knowing something. As my old professors would say, that's just a good memory.

Besides, both McCoy and Data also refer to Klingons and Romulans as being honourable. Does that mean they are not capable of being unpleasant/violent/sneaky on a societal scale? If 'honour' is the most defining thing about both societies - and if honour isn't an incredibly subjective concept - then why aren't Klingons and Vulcan both cultures identical?

But leaving that aside for a moment: I'm going to ask a question:

What specific things did the Vulcans do in ENT, that they hadn't done in the show before? What 'honourable' actions did they do in the latter series, that they failed to do in ENT?
 
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What specific things did the Vulcans do in ENT, that they hadn't done in the show before?. What 'honourable' actions did they do in the latter series, that they failed to do in ENT?

This.
 
Welp I saw the trailer, and I know that I should be a bit more open minded about new incarnations of Star Trek as often they are sort of a representation of the generation at the moment.
But on aesthetic side alone I am pretty disappointed even if I like the updated bridge approach with screens over other screens on the monitors.

As for the show itself, I am going to wait until it has run a few episodes before I consider watching it.
 
I suspect when Lt. Mike Burnham takes the centre seat (of the titular USS Discovery, which isn't even seen in this trailer! The ship we see is the USS Shenzhou) , we'll see a lot more comparisons to Janeway and Voyager.

I thought it looked amazing, taking much inspiration from the recent movies. It makes me wonder what fans wanting a 25th century series would expect it to look like - this series is set more than a century before Voyager and has all kinds of fancy holographic screens and stuff we could only have dreamed of on TV in the 1990's.

Here it is again, on Youtube this time:
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