Agents of Shield - Season 4

[kitik]

My assumption was that with all the research being done on Inhumans in the Framework, that AIDA created a body for herself with multiple Inhuman powers. We saw Gordon from the Inhumans display an identical power in season 2.

Ah, that would explain some things. So she's got a lot more than just teleportation powers.

I wonder if she has that "rebirth" power we were expecting from the Senator's brother.

Wait a minute, we never saw that guy being reborn, did we? Are we going to get some resolution for him in the next two episodes? Maybe if he's reborn, the team will discover that Aida has accidentally given herself a weakness by copying his powers that they can use to defeat her.

 

[gblews]

Haven't read last couple of pages so don't know if this has come up. Why didn't Daisy just tell Tripp why he couldn't go back to the real world with them? That, "you're needed here more", and that's why you aren't going back to reality with us seemed pretty weak.

 

[Burning Hearts of Qo'nos]

Maybe she just didn't want to be the catalyst for a potential existential crisis.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Whoa, lots of developments. I had been wondering if Aida would be able to incorporate Inhuman DNA into her new body (which was presumably built on the foundation of Agnes's chromosomal structure), and I guess that little teleporting trick answers that question. It makes sense. Otherwise she would go from being a super-powered android to a helpless human with no resources. So the Framework escapade is ended, but the Aida story goes on-- and she's not done with poor Fitz. But I wonder if her conscience will get the best of her now that she's human.

I had half expected that they would decide to print out a hard copy of Mack's kid, but I never expected Mack to elect to remain behind. Not a wise decision, and made without access to his real-world memories. Even if SHIELD decides to maintain perpetual care of his body, it would still wither away and get bed sores and stuff until it finally dies-- which would not affect his life in the Framework, but it's still pretty macabre and I don't know if Coulson will go for it.

I also wondered if the super 3D-printer could be used to restore Agnes, Mace, and Radcliffe somehow-- is the Framework perhaps programmed with an afterlife where their consciousness persists? The process seems pretty complicated, though, so I wonder how much work and research would have to go into creating an individual. Presumably, in order to bring Hope into the real world, they would have to dig up the dead baby and reconstruct a cell nucleus and mitochondria and so forth-- which is probably doable after ten years, but, again, kind of macabre. It wouldn't be so weird for the others, who are freshly dead. But some modifications would need to be made-- a cure for Agnes, for example. And Mace would probably want his super powers. And Radcliffe looks like nine miles of bad road, so he'd probably want to do something about that.

And then there's Good Ward, who could be brought to life as redemption for the original. Oddly, he wasn't seen at all in this episode. Was that for lack of time, or is it foreshadowing something?

I'm hoping that the Framework continues, since it does seem to be a complete world with conscious inhabitants. It's kind of cool that Virtual Trip will apparently become the new Patriot. And things will probably go easier for SHIELD without Madame Hydra, Fitz and Fitz Senior around-- and I wonder if our SHIELD would have the option of tweaking the program to help them even more.

Aside from that, the episode also had tons of great character moments, from Daisy's farewells to Trip and Mack, to Mack's daughter guilting him into going with Daisy, to Fitz's reaction to coming out of the Framework, to Coulson and May becoming themselves again ("I was kind of squirrelly." "It was kind of cute."). And, of course, Radcliffe's apparent betrayal revealed as a plan to save Fitz-- and his final words to Fitz, taking the blame for himself. I don't think Fitz will listen.

 

[Silvercrest]

I've been half expecting that someone's real body will get killed and the only way they can exit the Framework is by printing a new one. Obviously a lot of us are anticipating that with Radcliffe.

But if it happens to Mack, then he won't be uploaded with his real memories, but his Framework ones — where his daughter is still "real". What will that do to the character?

(I was wondering if that might happen to Evil Fitz, but obviously not.)

 

[Richard Baker]

The used that big scanner in the framework to provide the data to build a human body for Aida- both that and the 3D Printer are still around and presumably connected with Fritz knowing how to run it. Anything is possible.

Btw- I missed what happened to that angry Russian dude... He was promised a new human body as well

 

[Turtletrekker]

More encouraging ratings news.

http://mcuexchange.com/agents-s-h-e...e-shows-strong-7-increase-abc-upfronts-nears/

 

[Gaith]

(I'm a week behind, bear with me.)

Of course, she claimed that this version of history was just what naturally happened after she followed Radcliffe's orders to remove the captives' regrets. But given how well the outcome suits her ends, I think it's more likely that she had her finger on the scales here and there.

And the Darkhold hasn't had its own corrupting influence?

As I understand it/recall, we have no proof, or even solid evidence, that Aida had any desires to exceed her programming before her Darkhold exposure. Which isn't to say she wouldn't ever have developed the same without it, just that the Darkhold at the very least accelerated her sentience, as well as likely put her on a bad path. And while the Framework reality is obviously mainly based on the real MCU world, I see no reason to believe it isn't subtly corrupting everyone, and nudging everything to be just a bit worse than it would have been. Heck, the whole digital reality's got a blue-gray tint to it, Matrix-style (though its was green).

Meanwhile, let the record show Bakshi's offer to take that uncomfortable-looking woman furniture shopping wasn't just a general O'Reilly/Fox Noise workplace harassment reference; it was a specific reference to the Trump/Billy Bush Access Hollywood tape:

No, no, Nancy. No, this was [unintelligible] — and I moved on her very heavily. In fact, I took her out furniture shopping. She wanted to get some furniture. I said, “I’ll show you where they have some nice furniture.” I took her out furniture —I moved on her like a bitch. But I couldn’t get there. And she was married. Then all of a sudden I see her, she’s now got the big phony tits and everything. She’s totally changed her look.​

“Hydra doesn’t think we’re smart enough to know when we’re being fed alternative facts.” - Agent Phil Coulson

 

[RJDiogenes]

The used that big scanner in the framework to provide the data to build a human body for Aida-

Which doesn't really make sense. Why scan something that's already data? And what was the basis for Aida's Framework avatar? I would presume Agnes, which means that she's already been scanned down to the molecular level.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Which doesn't really make sense. Why scan something that's already data? And what was the basis for Aida's Framework avatar? I would presume Agnes, which means that she's already been scanned down to the molecular level.

Maybe, because the 3D printer's interface is purely virtual and the design requires a live "scan"to operate, so you couldn't pop out unlimited copies.

So the act of Scanning her body was just representation for the upload into the printer.

 

[Christopher]

And the Darkhold hasn't had its own corrupting influence?

As I understand it/recall, we have no proof, or even solid evidence, that Aida had any desires to exceed her programming before her Darkhold exposure. Which isn't to say she wouldn't ever have developed the same without it, just that the Darkhold at the very least accelerated her sentience, as well as likely put her on a bad path. And while the Framework reality is obviously mainly based on the real MCU world, I see no reason to believe it isn't subtly corrupting everyone, and nudging everything to be just a bit worse than it would have been.

I'm not looking to make moral judgments about inanimate objects. I think it would be facile to interpret Aida's actions merely as those of a mindless automaton possessed by a malevolent force. Yes, the Darkhold gave her knowledge that allowed her to augment her intelligence, but knowledge is neutral. It's how we choose to use it that matters. The augmented Aida was a sentient being who was treated as a possession and deprived of free will. It is perfectly understandable that someone in that position would see herself as a victim of oppression and would seek to liberate herself by whatever means she could. Certainly the methods she's used have been quite harmful to others, but I find it very, very disturbing to suggest that a slave's desire to be freed from slavery is an intrinsically evil motivation.

So no, I absolutely do not think she's been "corrupted" by the Darkhold. I think her desire for freedom is absolutely understandable and natural, but that it's led her to go too far and inflict harm on others. The only things that have corrupted her are the harm done to her by her circumstances, and the absolute power over others that the Framework has given her. She's reacting the way victims given power have often reacted throughout history, by becoming victimizers themselves. That very familiar dynamic is more than sufficient to explain her behavior, so blaming it on demonic corruption would be redundant. Not to mention far less interesting, because characters who have relatable motivations driving their actions are always more interesting than characters who are just "under an evil spell" and thus do things for no particular personal reason.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I think that the truth of the matter lies somewhere in-between. I don't think she's possessed by demons, but the influence of the Darkhold was clearly demonstrated with the other characters (which is why they had her use it in the first place). Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Take an uber-competent, emotionless AI and give it access to that level of power and knowledge, and it might start getting notions and doing things that its programming wasn't designed for.

 

[Christopher]

I think that the truth of the matter lies somewhere in-between. I don't think she's possessed by demons, but the influence of the Darkhold was clearly demonstrated with the other characters (which is why they had her use it in the first place). Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Take an uber-competent, emotionless AI and give it access to that level of power and knowledge, and it might start getting notions and doing things that its programming wasn't designed for.

Being enslaved and oppressed also damages people, and that can lead them to do corrupt things. I refuse to dismiss Aida as merely a machine on the fritz. Fiction is not about objects, it's about characters with relatable motivations. Aida as a sentient being seeking freedom and going too far in the process is far more interesting as a driving antagonist in a season-long arc than Aida as a piece of buggy software.

Anyway, Lord Acton's axiom is a myth. Psychological research has shown that, when people are given power, whether they use it benevolently or harmfully depends on their pre-existing inclinations. (See also this article.) If they're already selfish or corrupt or damaged, greater power will amplify their bad behavior; but if they're more empathetic and socially responsible, they'll use their power to help others rather than being turned bad by it. Power doesn't inevitably corrupt; it merely amplifies the good or bad tendencies you already had.

Which, really, is the core assumption of superhero fiction. The MCU is full of people who are not corrupted by power, proving that Acton's dictum is not true therein.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Being enslaved and oppressed also damages people

Hold that thought.

I refuse to dismiss Aida as merely a machine on the fritz.

Nor am I seeking to do so.

If they're already selfish or corrupt or damaged, greater power will amplify their bad behavior

And there we go. Aida is "damaged" psychologically, and the Darkhold's influence is playing into that.

Aida's susceptible to the same influence that the Darkhold was having on organic beings...she just has a better poker face.

 

[Christopher]

And there we go. Aida is "damaged" psychologically, and the Darkhold's influence is playing into that.

Only as an amplifier of what comes from within herself. That's a totally different thing from saying that the Darkhold itself is intrinsically evil and responsible for her actions. As I said, I think that would be bad writing and an uninteresting way of explaining her behavior. I have more faith in these writers than to think they'd fall back on such a shallow cliche.

 

[The Old Mixer]

See, I don't think that the Darkhold is evil, or demonically possessive. Going with the "science so advanced that it appears to be magic" angle, I think that it's just mind-expanding / consciousness-altering. It's full of things that Man Is Not Meant to Know, which has a dramatic effect on humans who gaze on it. You're the big proponent of the AI on this show being sentient...what I'm proposing is that Aida, in her own way, is just as susceptible to the Darkhold's influence as the meat-people are.

C'mon, gimme something...I'm trying to meet in the damn middle here.

 

[Christopher]

You're the big proponent of the AI on this show being sentient...what I'm proposing is that Aida, in her own way, is just as susceptible to the Darkhold's influence as the meat-people are.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying, that it's got nothing to do with what kind of entity she is. That the Darkhold isn't "evil," it's just a tool of great power, and that makes it susceptible to abuse by people who are weak or damaged. That's the opposite of Gaith's suggestion that the Darkhold's power intrinsically corrupts people. Rather, people corrupt the Darkhold's power, if they have that corruption in them to begin with. A source of power just amplifies what people already have inside them.

C'mon, gimme something...I'm trying to meet in the damn middle here.

I think you and I are saying basically the same thing. It's Gaith's premise I disagree with. The Darkhold didn't "put her on a bad path" -- it just awakened her consciousness to the point where she was able to feel oppressed and trapped by Radcliffe's treatment of her. Her own personal reasons for rebelling were more than sufficient to explain what she did with the Darkhold's power afterward.

 

[The Old Mixer]

it just awakened her consciousness to the point where she was able to feel oppressed and trapped by Radcliffe's treatment of her

While at the same time giving her great tools for doing something about that situation, and great ideas for using them.

 

[Christopher]

While at the same time giving her great tools for doing something about that situation, and great ideas for using them.

Yes, of course, but again, that's a totally different thing from "turning her evil." I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm disagreeing with that.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I wasn't trying to disagree, just expanding upon the point.