The technology issue if you did a post-Berman era Trek show?

[Voth commando1]

But's it's continually advancing though, and that's made clear.

I get it your tired of technobabble and space anomalies and wouldn't mind some old fashioned buttons and gritty handwork-problem is according to every single Trek ep dealing with Trek's revealed future(I shudder to think of 40th century trek) is that technology is progressing ships are getting faster and faster covering greater distances more quickly. AI has already been achieved at least three or four times. If the federation looses up on genetic engineering not only will that science march faster but enhanced individuals will further accelerate progress.

Trek is moving from its current levels to Star Wars levels and onwards apparently to Doctor Who levels and beyond-The Culture, Xelee Sequence, intergalactic travel, multi-galactic federation, interdimensional travel, totally easy time travel, immortality and so on.

 

[fireproof78]

Which might create a class of individuals, similar to the holograms that EMH lamented about in "Author, Author."

 

[Voth commando1]

I imagine the federation will do one of two things-prevent new AI from forming as a man tries to shift the gates of heaven and earth or they will seek a gradual integration of synthetic life into federation society in as measured and foresighted a way as possible.

 

[Tenacity]

But's it's continually advancing though, and that's made clear.

No, we see select moments in time where there are advancements, nothing suggests that the advancement hasn't be in steps and surges, as opposed to continuious.

 

[Voth commando1]

Do you honestly think an open society like the federation would stagnate? After the Dominion war? After Voyager brought home some new toys? And if you read the novels-Borg invasion, DQ exploration, and alpha-beta quadrant power brinkmanship and intrigue?(though you don't have include those elements)

The I imagine the general principle of ships would remain the same even with faster tech unless of course they figure out to replicate iconian gateways or some other exotic means of transport or propulsion. Phasers will be more deadly and perhaps might reach a plateau as firearms have in RL where no real advancement is possible just marginal improvements. Though I imagine by the time ship relativity era they will have much better or sophisticated weapons(Braxton had to be using 24th century tech).

Computers will become so advanced as to achieve AI routinely or at least have so much data and use that they are practically perfect and AIish.

Sure you could have a show set in a period of a few decades where progress was slowing or tapering off a bit but even then at the rate it's moving its still a lot more advanced than late 24th century Trek.

 

[marlboro]

The whole "photonic rights" thing was a step too far, imo. It opens up such a huge can of worms that it is impossible to ignore.

Simple solution: the Federation bans Holodeck technology due to its obvious danger and potential for abuse. Ethics issues solved, and no more using the Holodeck as a crutch for the writers to churn out lame episodes.

 

[Voth commando1]

It wouldn't make sense IU though or really OU people like their fantasy and it's pretty clear that IU holodeck a have taken the place of theatres, books, movies and so on. Full interactive entertainment.

Also the federation isn't in the habit of banning entire mediums.

 

[marlboro]

All of the tech "problems" could be solved fairly simply, I think.

1) A few lines of dialog to the extent that "that problem has been solved/precautions have been taken" to clean up old messes
2) A line of dialog about how various old bits of tech have been found to be dangerous or unreliable. Like a useful version of the "warp speed limit" that actually helps the show instead of hamstringing it.
3) The writers could ignore them. It certainly wouldn't be the first time.

 

[marlboro]

It wouldn't make sense IU though or really OU people like their fantasy and it's pretty clear that IU holodeck a have taken the place of theatres, books, movies and so on. Full interactive entertainment.

Also the federation isn't in the habit of banning entire mediums.

Heh, I'm suddenly reminded of the old Daffy Duck cartoon "Duck Amok" with Lt Barclay breaking the fourth wall to rail against some unseen Trek writer for stealing his holodeck.

If you are the creator of the show and you realize that you have painted yourself into a corner, you can either write yourself out of it with a believable explanation that is "true" to the story if it's a major event, hand wave it with a few bits of dialog if it's fairly minor, or you can ignore it completely if it is unimportant and leave it up to fans who care about such things to fix it in their "head canon."

p.s. We have no idea what the Federation has or has not banned. Considering the Holodecks seem to become death traps on a daily basis and that they are capable of creating life with a voice command as simple as "Computer make me a serial killer/rapist/giant city destroying reptile that even Data can't defeat" I think it wouldn't be too hard to imagine Starfleet restricting them.

 

[Voth commando1]

I really don't like the writers ignoring what's come before-this is Star Trek not the latest DC comics reboot. If they go that I will struggle to still consider myself a fan.

And holodecks can be useful-character development, more intricate plots, and so on.

Everyone seems to want more "flesh and blood" storytelling. And that's wonderful problem is Trek Canon has made it abundantly clear to anyone who payed attention that the future of Trek's prime timeline is continuous advancement to a level that would render most "flesh and blood" storytelling obsolete.

 

[fireproof78]

Do you honestly think an open society like the federation would stagnate? After the Dominion war? After Voyager brought home some new toys? And if you read the novels-Borg invasion, DQ exploration, and alpha-beta quadrant power brinkmanship and intrigue?(though you don't have include those elements)

The I imagine the general principle of ships would remain the same even with faster tech unless of course they figure out to replicate iconian gateways or some other exotic means of transport or propulsion. Phasers will be more deadly and perhaps might reach a plateau as firearms have in RL where no real advancement is possible just marginal improvements. Though I imagine by the time ship relativity era they will have much better or sophisticated weapons(Braxton had to be using 24th century tech).

Computers will become so advanced as to achieve AI routinely or at least have so much data and use that they are practically perfect and AIish.

Sure you could have a show set in a period of a few decades where progress was slowing or tapering off a bit but even then at the rate it's moving its still a lot more advanced than late 24th century Trek.

Sorry, the tech of Trek, especially in the 24th century, feels very stagnant, and not just the tech but a lot of society as well. AI does not feel like its moving forward, or is being deliberately held the back, for reasons. It might be similar to the prohibition on genetic engineering due to fears of another Khan. Same thing with positronics, given that B4 is the last Soong type android

The phasers of the 24th century do not seem any different than phasers used by the Voyager crew. Compare that with firearms tech which is constantly innovating ammo types, materials, calibers, optics, as well as improvements in ballistic protection and armor.

 

[at Quark's]

I think it wouldn't be too hard to imagine Starfleet restricting them.

Restricting them, yes. Banning them, no. There are too much advantages associated with said technologies to ban them altogether.

Suppose for example the Federation banned AI research, while the Romulans and other powers continued to develop it and keep augmenting it. Supposing that it doesn't blow up in their smug Romulan faces, guess who is going to draw the short straw in the long term?

 

[marlboro]

I think we're coming at this from two different points of view here. I'm saying that from a writing POV, if you think that the technological advancement shown in the 24th century Trek shows makes it harder to write sequels, it is just a matter of writing your way out of it or simply ignoring it. Is the issue of the Holodeck creating sentient beings a can of worms? Then simply state that precautions have been taken to prevent such things from happening. The TNG war speed limit/global warming thing cramping your style? Just say "we fixed it." Transwarp a problem? Just say it's still too dangerous to use in its experimental phase and ignore it.

You don't have to worry about what the Romulans could do if you don't write stories about them actually doing it. It would be like not doing the Dominion war story line because you are worried about writing the Organians reaction or the what the guys who raised Charlie X would do. If you do have a good story involving those scenarios - great. If not, you can't let yourself get bogged down to the point where you can't tell new stories.

 

[Tenacity]

Do you honestly think an open society like the federation would stagnate?

I don't think we know enough about the society and government of the future Federation to convincingly assume that it's an "open society."

And yes, I think that the Federation's tech development could experience "hills and valleys."

And if you read the novels

I make it a point not to.

Once the novels veered off into their own internally consistent creative universe, separate from the series and movies, I honestly cease to consider them to be Star Trek.

I consider them to be akin to something like Star Trek Online, similar in some ways yes, but profoundly different in many others.

and it's pretty clear that IU holodeck a have taken the place of theatres, books, movies and so on.

While a point might be made that interactive holodeck/suites have replaced traditional movies, performance theater, musical concerts and the reading of physical books (and E-books) remain.

And wasn't the Voyager's EMH writing a holonovel, which a audience would watch without interacting? A form of "movie."

Suppose for example the Federation banned AI research

In the novel The Positronic Man (Isaac Asimov and Robert Silverberg) through a error in manufacturing, a servant robot becomes sapient. The company (iirc) changes the design of new positronic brains to ensure that this never happens again, and retrofits existing positronic brains to do the same.

I can see something similar being done with the programming of EMH's and other holographic creations. While the Voyager's EMH turned out well, Professor Moriarty didn't.

In the Trek-verse, it would be possible to have highly advanced computer systems, without them being self-aware.

 

[Voth commando1]

Even if you don't take into account the novels technology is reaching beyond Dr. Who Levels. That is simply undeniable. Period. The end. No backtracking, no stagnation-unless you abandon you know a core premise of Trek which is progress and growth.

 

[fireproof78]

Even if you don't take into account the novels technology is reaching beyond Dr. Who Levels. That is simply undeniable. Period. The end. No backtracking, no stagnation-unless you abandon you know a core premise of Trek which is progress and growth.

Which makes it pretty much magic level tech and limits story writing to some extent.

Federation society still feels stagnant to me, though, what little we see of it.

Also, the destruction of the Dominion War might result in some technological stagnation as well. And, we don't really see technology advancing from TNG to VOY, so not sure what changes we are supposed to be looking at.

 

[Tim Walker]

Technological revolutions can take a long time to reach their peak.

Consider the steam engine. The first practical use was to pump water out of mines-that was about three centuries ago.

The first steam boat appeared decades later. Two centuries ago , In the early 19th century, the first steam locomotive appeared. Of course, steam reached its peak in the late 19th century.

 

[Tim Walker]

I would imagine that, in the aftermath of the Dominion War, a traumatized Federation would enter a period of Reconstruction. Society would emphasize rebuilding, and would likely use off the shelf technology, because of pressing need.

 

[Tim Walker]

And the history of technological innovation does show "hills and valleys", or, better described as slopes and plateaus. The Federation could be on a plateau, with technological change being incremental at most-that is, refinements of well established technologies.

 

[Voth commando1]

We know that in a future centuries they will be wildly more advanced than they were at the end of Voyager why would that progress not be continuous?