The technology issue if you did a post-Berman era Trek show?

Discussion in 'Future of Trek' started by Jayson1, Mar 22, 2017.

  1. Tim Walker

    Tim Walker Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    As I recall, GURPS had a couple hybrid categories for tech levels. One was a situation in which a culture learns to duplicate an item above their native tech level. That doesn't mean that they have truly mastered this technology-it may mean making an imitation that kind of/sort of works.
     
  2. Matthew Raymond

    Matthew Raymond Captain Captain

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    Don't even get me started on the Warp Scale...
     
  3. Samuel

    Samuel Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I've never understood the obsession with a "fixed warp scale" on Star Trek anyway. On Earth the speed of sound varies a great deal depending on the density of the material it is traveling through.

    Why couldn't it be something similar for faster than light travel.
     
  4. Butters

    Butters Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    True. But what other mediums would you travel through?
     
  5. Matthew Raymond

    Matthew Raymond Captain Captain

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    Well, you might travel around or through stellar phenomenon (nebulae, et cetera), but Star Trek does that a lot anyway. The main issue isn't that we actually need the Warp Scale for something, so much as it hides a multitude of sins. Supposedly, this "Speed of Plot (TM)" is a feature instead of a bug, because it frees writers from having to work out actual spacial relationships and timing issues. Personally, I think Speed of Plot just make writers lazier.
     
  6. Cutie McWhiskers

    Cutie McWhiskers Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Which rank up there with Asimov's three silly laws of robotics, but didn't both Asimov and Clarke write fiction for a living, rending their laws equally fictitious?

    In other possible words, in terms of marketing or having an audience whose collective IQ is barely higher than a prehistoric caveman's, then the magic will work better. Sadly, it's not 1000,000BC anymore. People need to see a difference, not just be spoon-fed quick rug-burying answers waved away by a magic wand from Harry Potterland or Star Warsville. Old Trek has Scotty, the character that got many into STEM. Has Geordi too, who got many into STEM too. The last thing a future Trek needs is someone who waves a magic wand willy nilly - that's something Doctor Who needs to desperately get away from as well. Where am I going with this? Dunno. Trek always needs some form of technology, and characters to work with it. Not hyper bunnies waving magic wands.
     
  7. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Tell you what-let's put you on the writing schedule they had and see how you do. I'm genuinely curious, because reading about GR nearly killing himself to get scripts done doesn't inspire me with much confidence that I could churn them out without some "Speed of Plot" devices.
     
  8. Voth commando1

    Voth commando1 Commodore Commodore

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    That would be a bad bad idea. It's one thing to not have the novels, STO, or other expansionary materials be canon but decanonizing whole parts of the shows just on someone's opinion is a bad bad idea.
     
  9. Matthew Raymond

    Matthew Raymond Captain Captain

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    Amen to that. I'm really tired of the Doctor winning on reputation alone. He...er...she needs to start earning her victories with cleverness that people can actually understand instead of technobabble.

    My point wasn't that tech needs to be like magic. My point was that if you project too far into the future, tech might as well be magic, because you can't know the principles under which it operates. In order to create good drama in sci-fi, you need to keep your conceits to a minimum.
    I sympathize, but what you're really talking about is sacrificing good writing for the sake of money and time. It may be necessary, but it's a necessary EVIL. Doing without such a crutch might be painful at first, but I suspect writers could adjust fairly quickly.

    For example, if a ship is under attack RIGHT NOW and they're several light years away, your ship isn't saving them without a wormhole drive. So, if you have to write a quick episode, either put your hero ship significantly closer (or even escorting the ship to be attacked) or make the episode about the ship getting there too late and helping out the survivors of the attack. Or just omit the details. Say that the Enterprise is the closest ship, but don't say it's 3 light years away. Say that the attacked ship is five minutes away at maximum speed, and let the fans figure out the distance.
     
  10. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, I am. Because not every writer could adapt, and the ones that could cost more. Not saying I want it to be that way, but we are standing far outside looking in with little appreciation for the stress and time it takes to make it good-ask Nick Meyer about TWOK.

    Not saying it is impossible, but right now, money is a huge factor.
     
  11. Matthew Raymond

    Matthew Raymond Captain Captain

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    I have to wonder what percentage of a production's budget writing is, though. I would think a well-written episode taking place almost entirely on a single set (a la the Doctor Who episode "Midnight", which is basically a stage play) would be cheaper than a poorly written one set in multiple locations. To me, writing has a huge impact on the quality of a show, but I can't imagine it costs more than a few percent of the total budget. Am I missing something?
     
  12. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yes. How much time it would take for them to do so. In that business, time is money.
     
  13. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This made me imagines a episode takes place entirely on the bridge, inbetween commercials the scenes would be single long unbroken takes.
     
  14. Matthew Raymond

    Matthew Raymond Captain Captain

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    There was a TNG episode where the B plot with Dr. Crusher and Geordi took place entirely in one shuttle bay. I don't think there's ever been an episode where everything happens on one set, because the show it basically an ensemble, but I've always wondered if it would make sense to break an episode up into separate units for the A and B plot, and film them independently. Then you could have a unit film entirely on one set and viewers may not even notice. If you have particular set being used for a lot of scenes, you could just have a dedicated unit for that set, but that would take a lot of careful planning and writing to coordinate.
    Well, first of all, I wonder if we're not comparing apples and oranges. Star Trek: Discovery had 15 episodes for its first season, while TNG had 26. Many Netflix originals don't even have that many. So I have to wonder if the schedule is as grueling now as it was back then, and thus the situation may have changed a bit.

    That said, the writers back in TNG era still had a series bible to adhere to, which placed limits on the kind of stories the writers could tell. It also stated the following:
    A simple requirement that the speeds and distances make sense is not really that big a deal considering other requirements that were already made of the writers. For instance, the bible forbids stories involving Vulcans or warfare with the Klingons and the Romulans, a rule that was broken multiple times in later shows. It also prevented stories where technology was the villain. It would seem that rules like these would make it just as hard if not harder to produce new stories in a short time frame. I guess I'm just not that convinced that "Speed of Plot" is more burdensome than any other series bible restriction.
     
  15. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    And, as you said, those rules were broken later on. I'm not saying that "Speed of Plot" is the most burdensome; more that there are restrictions in general that the writers are already working under, and that one is probably the easiest to sacrifice and break.

    And, maybe the schedule isn't as challenging now, but I have no doubt there are pressures that we, as fans, don't know about.
     
  16. Matthew Raymond

    Matthew Raymond Captain Captain

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    I think the difference here is objective quality. Whether or not you should have a war with the Klingons is subjective and open to opinion. Having velocity scales that vary episode-to-episode is just inconsistent. It's an objective flaw that serves little or no narrative purpose. If anything, consistency with speed, distance and timing heightens drama because realistic consequences are often more interesting than the more convenient solution.

    Say, I wonder if the script supervisor couldn't be recruited to help in this regard. This seems in line with their job...
    Well, assuming they still make the same money per script, adjusted for inflation, they probably have to moonlight with another show, which means the same workload, just spread out over more shows. Surprised you didn't catch me on that. ;)
     
  17. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I agree. I really am not anti-whatever-you're-proposing, so much as I'm acknowledging the (admittedly unfortunate) real world factors that come in to play.
    I prefer to let people make their own mistakes and learn from them...

    Yes, that was totally the plan...

    ;)
     
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