Last two seasons... the worst?

[Voth commando1]

I didn't mind friendship one myself personally.

 

[The Wormhole]

Season 7 was pretty dire, but I thought season 6 was pretty enjoyable. Not necessarily the best, but not bad either.

 

[Thomas Eugene]

So those of you who think the last two seasons were weaker ... what would you have done differently?

 

[Cyke101]

So those of you who think the last two seasons were weaker ... what would you have done differently?

At the very least for Endgame, show the crew beaming down to Earth. It's a 7 year investment on the viewer's part, the payoff really should be us seeing them achieve what they set out to do (how many Earth episodes do TNG and DS9 have? How many "fake Earth" episodes does Voyager have, for that matter?). Reserve the last 15 minutes as an epilogue to show how far everyone's come personally, spiritually, characteristically. The crew earned their hard fought victory, the viewers earned to see them happy.

 

[The Lonely Man]

So those of you who think the last two seasons were weaker ... what would you have done differently?

I don't think they were weaker but I was disappointed we didn't really get to see them return to Earth.
After 7 years I expected more than what we got,a 5 minutes showing Voyager returning and the reactions of Starfleet, The Crew and their Families wasn't a lot to ask.

 

[KelisThePoet]

I continue to be baffled by the common opinion that a tightly rendered, clear image of Voyager's return to Earth and Starfleet should have been watered down by 5 minutes-1 hour of sentimental drivel with no dramatic value whatsoever.

 

[The Lonely Man]

I continue to be baffled by the common opinion that a tightly rendered, clear image of Voyager's return to Earth and Starfleet should have been watered down by 5 minutes-1 hour of sentimental drivel with no dramatic value whatsoever.

Where you see Sentimental drivel I see an emotional connection. We had grown to know these characters over the previous 7 years. I'd have liked to have seen their reactions to their journeys end.

 

[Sophie74656]

I continue to be baffled by the common opinion that a tightly rendered, clear image of Voyager's return to Earth and Starfleet should have been watered down by 5 minutes-1 hour of sentimental drivel with no dramatic value whatsoever.

I agree with this. We saw them get back to the Alpha Quadrant, saw that they came home, even saw Admiral Paris personally reacting to this. I think it was well done.

 

[Krena]

At the very least for Endgame, show the crew beaming down to Earth. It's a 7 year investment on the viewer's part, the payoff really should be us seeing them achieve what they set out to do (how many Earth episodes do TNG and DS9 have? How many "fake Earth" episodes does Voyager have, for that matter?). Reserve the last 15 minutes as an epilogue to show how far everyone's come personally, spiritually, characteristically. The crew earned their hard fought victory, the viewers earned to see them happy.

I personally would've scrapped Endgame altogether and just have a two parter where part one ends with them arriving and part two shows what happens when they got down.

 

[Thomas Eugene]

If you guys only want to change ENDGAME, I think we can safely say that you didn't think less of Seasons 6 and 7 than of other seasons. It seems that out of 52 times 45 minutes you want to change only the last 15 minutes. I'm sure that most people would want to change more than that from the first five seasons.

 

[stardream]

My ideal ending is similar to the real life homecomings we saw when troops returned from Iraq and Afghanastan. The crew is assembled in a large open space, a cargo bay or someplace. Janeway facing the crew, gives them a farewell speech. The camera starts with a close up Janeway She commends them for their bravery and whatever...remembers the fallen. The camera pans to the crew to show their reactions, then back to Janeway where behind her we will see the families of the crew waiting behind her. We will recognize everyone. The Paris Family, B'Elanna's father, Harry's parents, Seven's aunt...etc and those we don't know we can guess. We can figure out who Samantha Wildman's husband is by the ridges on his forehead. Heck, throw in Reg Barclay and Doctor Zimmerman just for fun. Then we see a reunion, just like we saw in real life when units returned home. That would have been enough for me.

 

[KelisThePoet]

Where you see Sentimental drivel I see an emotional connection.

That's fair. I respect the fact people want different things out of fiction. Ultimately it's subjective. But I ask, what does emotional content divorced from plot circumstances do for the story? I like formally tight storytelling, and superfluity annoys me.

And I get that not everyone judges a good story on formal terms. Some people respond to emotion on screen with emotion of their own and want to see it for its own sake. I'm the opposite. Seeing my favorite characters party won't necessarily make me happy, and seeing them mourn won't necessarily make me sad. In fact, I often resist such open plays for my emotion, and by contrast, I find myself responding most emotionally to other kinds of scenes and stories. For instance, when Janeway and Da Vinci fly the glider, in "Concerning Flight," its a happy moment framed by a perilous chase sequence in a quirky hologram story, but it always reduces me to tears.

 

[The Lonely Man]

That's fair. I respect the fact people want different things out of fiction. Ultimately it's subjective. But I ask, what does emotional content divorced from plot circumstances do for the story?

Depends what you consider the story I guess. Some may consider it an unnecessary distraction that serves no real purpose and doesn't advance the plot and that's perfectly reasonable.

I'm a little different in that respect, after 7 years the journey was at an end, we had grown to know/love/dislike a number of characters over the years and I think it's logical to want to see their reaction to their journeys end. It provides a form of closure.
The crew are home, they're happy, they're back with their families. I wanted to see that. I wanted that closure.

One of my favourite scenes in the 7 years of the show was the scene with Neelix leaving and Tuvok calling him back to do a one step dance.
Ultimately it did nothing for the plot but on an emotional level, after 7 years, I thought that scene was beautiful.

 

[KelisThePoet]

Well, we can agree on one thing. I too love the goodbye to Neelix at the end of "Homestead" and Tuvok's dance. What a visually pointed, perfectly paced little moment.

 

[Cyke101]

Well, we can agree on one thing. I too love the goodbye to Neelix at the end of "Homestead" and Tuvok's dance. What a visually pointed, perfectly paced little moment.

I think, really, what we're looking for is something similar but for each main character, as a means to wrap them up. An epilogue scene really, since the main tension is gone by that point. They went through hell and back for their neat little bow on their gift, and even if that bow is simply decoration, it's still eye-catching and complimentary without overriding the main content of the gift.

DS9 managed to do something like that, albeit kind of cheesy. It could've been trimmed down, sure, but it was just as much for the cast and crew as it was for the viewer.

 

[The Lonely Man]

I think, really, what we're looking for is something similar but for each main character, as a means to wrap them up. An epilogue scene really, since the main tension is gone by that point. They went through hell and back for their neat little bow on their gift, and even if that bow is simply decoration, it's still eye-catching and complimentary without overriding the main content of the gift.

DS9 managed to do something like that, albeit kind of cheesy. It could've been trimmed down, sure, but it was just as much for the cast and crew as it was for the viewer.

Yeah.

TNG also had a lovely final scene round the Poker table with the main cast and Picard finally joining them all before saying he should have done this years ago.
It took a few minutes but it was a very poignant way to end 7 years.

 

[Logopolis]

Season 7 was an improvement over Season 6, but that doesn't say very much. I consider Voy's Season 6 along with TNG's Season 7 to be the worst of Trek. Voy's final season isn't great, but there were some glimmers of brilliance in there on an intermittent basis.

 

[Farscape One]

I suspect that it has to do with shuffling of personnel, at least for TOS and TNG. I don't know enough about Voyager behind the scenes to comment.

For TOS, there were major staffing overhauls, with Fred Frieberger perhaps being the most prominent. Such changes disrupt the flow of a show especially if key people get kicked out or are fired for whatever reason (budget, studio, network decree, etc). For TNG, the staff was essentially divided with DS9, so there was a bit of a drain of skill and talent -- add that to the complexities of running two shows simultaneously, and it begins to take its toll.

Braga and Moore put it well imo when they explained why they felt All Good Things was superior to Generations even though they were writing both simultaneously. But expand the struggles of two writers to a team of writers, and problems multiply.

Brannon Braga stepped down as showrunner after season 6 to focus on developing ENTERPRISE with Rick Berman. Joe Menosky, who was a Co-Executive Producer and frequent writing partner of Braga, left as well. Kenneth Biller became showrunner for the final season. James Kahn was brought in as a Supervising Producer. I like Menosky as a writer, so losing him was a creative blow, I think. Mike Sussman and Phyllis Strong come aboard at this time, and move over to ENTERPRISE when VOYAGER ends. Bryan Fuller, Michael Taylor, and Raf Green stayed from season 6 to 7.

So there definitely was a shakeup of writers for the last season. I personally think there might have been too many cooks in the kitchen. Even though DS9 had six writers for seasons 6 and 7, Ira Steven Behr and Hans Beimler virtually always wrote the same episodes, and David Weddle and Bradley Thompson ALWAYS wrote together, so it really seemed like 4 writers vs. 6. With VOYAGER, only Strong and Sussman were paired continuously, while anything goes with potential other pairings during this season. Biller/Green, Fuller/Taylor, Biller/Taylor... all the two parters, except the finale, had the teleplaus done by different people for each part. I think that hurt the quality of the writing... definitely screwed with the consistency.

 

[at Quark's]

I think the DS9 'flashback' series in the last hour weakened the finale. It was an unnecessary distraction from the rest of the plot. I followed these characters for 7 years, no need to remind me of that. TNG did it right, in my opinion, just briefly showing the crew together harmoniously for one final time going about their business, even though it's just a game and we know they may split up anytime soon after that.

In that respect, I don't think Endgame would have been stronger had they been showing them beaming down to earth, or any tearful reunions with family. I see them nearing earth in the final shot and I know it is going to happen. That's enough for me.

Though I do agree that the end seems a bit abrupt. A final scene with the entire (main) cast (ex. Neelix) would have been nice, perhaps. Then again,I'm not sure the story and the pacing of the rest of the episode left any room for that to let it feel natural. I mean, of course they want to beam down ASAP ...

Come to think of it, perhaps a 'goodbye voyager' meeting, at the request of the EMH, where he pontificates and reminisces with one of his looooong-winded speeches (with pictures) - , while the entire crew squirm uneasily in their chairs, burning with desire to leave for the transporter room and beam down to earth, would have been funny

 

[Prax]

I think the DS9 'flashback' series in the last hour weakened the finale. It was an unnecessary distraction from the rest of the plot. I followed these characters for 7 years, no need to remind me of that. TNG did it right, in my opinion, just briefly showing the crew together harmoniously for one final time going about their business, even though it's just a game and we know they may split up anytime soon after that.

In that respect, I don't think Endgame would have been stronger had they been showing them beaming down to earth, or any tearful reunions with family. I see them nearing earth in the final shot and I know it is going to happen. That's enough for me.

Though I do agree that the end seems a bit abrupt. A final scene with the entire (main) cast (ex. Neelix) would have been nice, perhaps. Then again,I'm not sure the story and the pacing of the rest of the episode left any room for that to let it feel natural. I mean, of course they want to beam down ASAP ...

Come to think of it, perhaps a 'goodbye voyager' meeting, at the request of the EMH, where he pontificates and reminisces with one of his looooong-winded speeches (with pictures) - , while the entire crew squirm uneasily in their chairs, burning with desire to leave for the transporter room and beam down to earth, would have been funny

This I can agree with. I just can't see the crew on earth reuniting with a bunch of strangers. As long as they aren't saying goodbye to each other. I don't want to have to see them split up. That would be sad.