Biggest problem with "Voyager" is that they didn't really take any chances.

[Jayson1]

I was wondering if anyone sort of agree's with me or disagree's. Both ways is good. I should state that I like "Voyager" somewhat, and I even like Janeway better than Sisko even though I think Sisko was better written. To me "Voyager" always felt like the popcorn, summer movie version of the "Trek" franchise after Pillar left at the end of season 2. I mean "TOS" has those elements as well but they also tried to be that rare popcorn movie that also tended to tackle stuff that was relevant to the time it was being created while also being something new to the entire genre. It basically created the first Space Opera on tv and also made things that had been treated as silly and just for little kids and made a more mature version of those type of sci-fi tropes, while not completely abandoning them.

To me "Voyager" while it had a intresting cast, maybe the best overall after DS9 and "TOS" and I would only count "TOS" if you are just looking at Kirk,Spock and McCoy. Despite the cast the show tended to relay more on gimicks and high concept sci-fi stuff and less on social issue's or character exploration. What was worst though is the show was very PC and afraid of doing things out of fear they might offend anyone, yet they didn't have someone with Pillar's skill in charge who could still find ways to challenge the character's like they did on TNG which was, equally PC but also felt earned because the show took a more intelligent aproach to stories, a almost "Doctor Who" aproach of not descending into needless space battles or action scene's. The show basically embraced the fact that it was serious and not edgy where as "Voyager" wanted to be cool which made it' PC stuff feel even more preachy. Granted it didn't help that the show didn't have a Patrick Stewart who can really sell a preachy speech because he is just tht dam good of a actor and talker.

Also the show never really challenged anything within the trek universe itself. Where was the dominon war, section 31,more arc based stories etc that would basically be unique to the Trek franchise and something that really sperated it from the other shows. Frankly if someone is talking about how a show is doing something that went against the "Roddenberry vision" then that is proably a good sign the show is doing something right because Berman used the vision like a sledghammer a lot of the time to keep Trek from growing and adapting to the changing world taking place around it.

Jason

 

[Mage]

Voyager could have been the show that really changed Star Trek, and doing things totally different than any other show. Instead, it became TNG-Lite with bad writing and shoddy continuity. I still really dig the show, but it's far from the greatest Trek. Which is a pitty, since it had so much potential.

 

[Sophie74656]

Where was the dominon war, section 31,more arc based stories etc that would basically be unique to the Trek franchise

How would these things be unique? These are what DS9 was based around.

Voyager also had many story arcs.

 

[Trekkin]

The Vidiians were one of the better ones. They were surprisingly disgusting and evil for Star Trek, but they did develop over their appearances and have a degree of sympathy.

Although the ending to their little arc wasn't so great. Why wrap them up with the uncertain-but-hopeful Lifesigns, when they can be cured off screen by an evil used car salesmen? Yay.

 

[Jayson1]

How would these things be unique? These are what DS9 was based around.

Voyager also had many story arcs.

Those were just example's of DS9 of taking risks. I didn't mean to imply that "Voyager" should have just copied DS9's risks. What I am saying is that they should have taken it's own risks. Do the "Year of Hell" for a season or why not kill off Janeway which would be a Trek first, in having the captain be killed before the show is over. They could have had the first gay character in Trek or even having a Mutiniy for real and let that impact the later shows once the mutiny storyline is over. Those are just a few example's. I'm sure there are many more things that could have been done to change the status quo.

They did bring in Seven which was a good idea in theory and worked okay but there will always be the sexism angle to that idea that kind of hurts how this will be perceived. I also liked that Paris and Torres had a romance which gave the show some life as well. Still it seems to little when compared to what DS9 was doing around the same time.

Jason

 

[Sophie74656]

It's very easy to look back on something and say oh they just should have done this or that

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Voyager could have been a great show even without taking changes, it needed better writing and acting.

 

[Jayson1]

It's very easy to look back on something and say oh they just should have done this or that

That might be the case but I think it's fair to look back in judging what type of show they were wanting to make. If they just wanted to be escapism entertainment then on that level they were a moderate success. If they wanted to be seen as something unique to "Trek" or something that tried to be a little more than a hour of fun then they failed and you got to wonder on some level why they wouldn't want to go for the more bolder aproach.

I think the big thing that really bothers fans is the show started off trying to be that unique and different take on Trek. I even felt they had some success on that level in season 1 and 2 when Pillar was running the show. You had your first female captain and you had the Starfleet/Maquis stuff and they were even doing some world building by making the Kazon,Vidians become the reacurring aliens
In season two they had the Seska/kula stuff along with the Jonas as a traitor stuff. Granted the Jonas stuff didn't quite work but the attempt was at least comendable and it might have even worked if Jeri Taylor hadn't fought against the idea. I remember reading something Pillar once said about season 2. He looked around at modern tv at the time, such as stuff like "NYPD Blue" and noticed that Trek was starting to look dated compared to what was going on so in season 2 he wanted to start doing faster scene's and doing more arc stuff but he basically lost that battle. "Voyager" ended up become more like TNG lite. like mentioned above in this thread.
I think people are more upset over what was lost as oposed to what was done. That and it's failure was basically the death blow to 24th century Trek. People liked that era and basically wanted it to keep going on. but in away that it always felt fresh and new and staying relevant to what else was going on in tv.

Jason

 

[Voth commando1]

Voyager was not TNG lite and DS9 hasn't really become a cause Celebre until recently.

 

[Refuge]

Lone star ship seventy thousand light years from the comfort zones of home, qualifies as taking a chance in my book.

 

[Jayson1]

Lone star ship seventy thousand light years from the comfort zones of home, qualifies as taking a chance in my book.

I agree the setting was a risk, in that you were putting your show in a place where it would be hard to use established and popular aliens like klingons,romulans etc. To me though this is kind of like the Starfleet/Maquis thing in that it was a bold idea that was soon watered down to point where the potential feels wasted.

This is one of the reasons people make a big deal about the ship seemingly having unlimited resources and the characters still acting like traditional starfleet in how it deals with problems. The potential isn't about the aliens of the Delta Quadrant because you can do aliens of the week in any show. The potential is having the ability to shake up the characters in away where you feel like your not watching a standard Trek show.

Also I think that They never made the Delta Quadrant feel like a real place also hurt. We should have seen reacurring aliens throughout the entire series and see what the political landscape was like. I feel like that was one of the initial ideas behind the Kazon and the Vidians but in season 3 the DQ became a blank slate and though you would sometimes see new aliens who were in more than a few ep's like the Hirogen,Maleon and Borg they never really felt like there was any big overal poltical landscape in the DQ like you get in the Alpha Quadrant.


Jason

 

[Jayson1]

I think sexism might have played apart in some people disliking the show but one could argue people who dislike DS9 is because it had a black captain. I don't think I have ever seen anyone on the trekbbs make a argument that Janeway was a bad captain because she was female?
It is really hard to tell why anyone likes or dislikes anything because everyone is different and have their own standards in judging what is good and bad. I would even argue that someone with sexist tendencies could still enjoy Janeway as a character in the same way a bigot might be a huge Micheal Jordan fan in the NBA. People are complex and sometimes they have conflicting views that don't even match up with some of their other views.

Jason

 

[Jayson1]

I think sexism might have played apart in some people disliking the show but one could argue people who dislike DS9 is because it had a black captain. I don't think I have ever seen anyone on the trekbbs make a argument that Janeway was a bad captain because she was female?
It is really hard to tell why anyone likes or dislikes anything because everyone is different and have their own standards in judging what is good and bad. I would even argue that someone with sexist tendencies could still enjoy Janeway as a character in the same way a bigot might be a huge Micheal Jordan fan in the NBA. People are complex and sometimes they have conflicting views that don't even match up with some of their other views.

Jason

I made a mistake here. This post was supose to be for the thread "Star trek Voyager" is the worst....Baloney" thread. Not sure what happened but does anyone know how to switch this post to that thread and if so can ya do it?

Jason

 

[marlboro]

^ why not copy and paste the test into the proper thread and then come back here and delete the unwanted post?

 

[Jayson1]

^ why not copy and paste the test into the proper thread and then come back here and delete the unwanted post?

I have no idea how to do any of those things. I'm not super great with computer stuff. Remember I am the guy who went 3 years without internet because I forgot to plug something in.

Jason

 

[marlboro]

At the bottom of your post you will find a button labeled "Edit." Click on that. Once you have done that, highlight all of the text you wrote, right click, and choose "copy."

Now go to the thread that you originally intended to respond in. Create a new post. Right click in the text space and choose "paste." Your old comment should appear there. Then hit "post" as you normally would.


Now, to delete your accidental post in this thread, just click on the "delete" option below your post. A new page will open up wanting you to confirm that you really want to delete your post. Do so.

 

[Jayson1]

I pushed edit but i'm not sure how to highlight stuff. I did push paste but that didn't do anything, except I think my computer might have given me nuclear access codes by accident. It's amazing what can be done by just pushing buttons on today's computers.

Jason

 

[marlboro]

Click the left button on your mouse. Hold it down. Now drag it across all of the text that you want to copy. It should be highlighted in blue. Once that's done, click the right button on your mouse and choose "copy."

If that doesn't help you we'll try to get some of our resident fanfic experts to translate this into authentic technobabble.

 

[Jayson1]

Click the left button on your mouse. Hold it down. Now drag it across all of the text that you want to copy. It should be highlighted in blue. Once that's done, click the right button on your mouse and choose "copy."

If that doesn't help you we'll try to get some of our resident fanfic experts to translate this into authentic technobabble.

I don't have a mouse. I have a lab top were you have to touch a black rectangle to move your cursor around. Use to have touch screen were I could just touch stuff to activate it but somehow my niece turned it off and I don't how to turn it back on.

Jason

 

[marlboro]

The black rectangle is the touchpad, I guess. It's like a mouse. There should be a couple of buttons right in front of the smooth part. Click the left button, hold it down, and drag the pointer across the text. It should be highlighted.