Cause and Effect - the Bozeman

[Timo]

To contribute to the Small Universe Syndrome, I hereby suggest that the time anomaly in the Typhon Expanse was also the result of the release of large energies in a single spot due to starship combat - to wit, the overkill volley fired at the Borg Cube in ST:FC.

(Naah. It was actually the result of the release of large energies in a single spot due to starship collision - to wit, the blowing up of the E-D as seen. Also, visitors of the spots where the Yamato and the Odyssey were lost beware!)

And as said, the loop probably only happened on the TNG side of the timerift, involving the same number of iterations but drastically different durations of a single iteration for the two ships. Back on the TOS Movie side, the Bozeman didn't have to repeat anything at all - she just sailed into that timehole once and suffered the consequences.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Prax]

Luckily for the Bozeman, they aren't stuck in the future. All they need to do is head back to Earth and slingshot around the Sun.

 

[Timo]

Wouldn't work - after all the wanton Kerr Loop action, time has become so holy that there's a church for it, and their sacristan is something mean with the gate keys and the virge.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Luckily for the Bozeman, they aren't stuck in the future. All they need to do is head back to Earth and slingshot around the Sun.

The DTI wouldn't allow it.

 

[Tenacity]

The DTI didn't prevent them from coming to the future.

 

[UssGlenn]

the Bozeman only gets to return to the past if history shows that they did. If history shows they stayed missing then they have to stay in the future, to preserve the timeline.

 

[Prax]

Is that why Picard told him he'd better beam over? To inform him of his rights?

 

[Tenacity]

i

the Bozeman only gets to return to the past if history shows that they did.

Unless they return, the history records wouldn't show that they did. So whether they stay or return the records will reflect their decision, regardless of what it is.

If the DTI says don't return because the records say they didn't and Bateman does anyway, the record will then say that he did return.

It will be Bateman's actions that set the history records, not the other way around.

And why would Bateman accept the opinion of the DTI? They're not a part of "his" command authority.

 

[UssGlenn]

iUnless they return, the history records wouldn't show that they did. So whether they stay or return the records will reflect their decision, regardless of what it is.

If the DTI says don't return because the records say they didn't and Bateman does anyway, the record will then say that he did return.

It will be Bateman's actions that set the history records, not the other way around.

And why would Bateman accept the opinion of the DTI? They're not a part of "his" command authority.

Not necessarily, when Mark Twain did his jaunt into the 24th century the historical record did not record his disappearance thus the crew could send him back to the past without issue.

The first time the Boseman appears, DTI would try to prevent their return. If the Bozeman still managed to escape back to the past then the next time they appeared in the 24th century DTI would help them return to the past since they are now part of that versions of DTI's history. We, the audience, don't know which timeloop we are watching.

 

[Gary7]

^ Good points.

Yeah, there's an inconsistency with "temporal anomaly management" in this episode. They looped one too many times, eating up the precious minutes we'd need for a satisfying wrap-up of the story. What are we to think, that the Bozeman is going to have to get used to living in the 24th century? When we know that even back in Kirk's day, it's possible to go back in time and correct things? DTI concept is problematic in of itself. Because... by the very nature of its mission, EVERYTHING should be correct and not detectable as anomalies or flaws, by having done their job! But we do see their struggles to keep things "as they should". Remember in Voyager when the command crew makes the realization that Starling may have ushered in the computer revolution that led to Starfleet's technology? Well, he did it with futuristic technology, which is a conundrum.... because if he's instrumental in creating the start for that technology, how did it get to him in the first place (via the time ship)? However it's worked out, he becomes essential. Without Starling, you don't have Starfleet as we know it (or perhaps delayed by a 100 years or more, which means the Borg take over everything, without Starfleet being there to stop them -- yikes).

There is one sad consideration for Bateson and the Bozeman... their having gone missing into the future (being absent for 80 years) doesn't seem to have had a negative effect on the timeline. But what would happen if they did go back? Would they find themselves destroyed some other way, perhaps down the road after being refitted, becoming one more statistic at Wolf 359? Or some other fate? Who knows. In any case, their continued presence in the 24th century could introduce changes that reverberate forward. Probably best for the DTI to show up an usher them back to their proper time. But then we'd have a lot of eye rolling by the audience. "The DTI? Not again!"

 

[Prax]

I don't think the DTI can send people through time. They just show up and make a report when someone a temporal anomaly experience. Someone's gotta keep track of them after all.

 

[Timo]

Exactly. They investigate, and that's all. Not because their mandate would be limited to that, but because their practical means are.

I guess DTI might make recommendations to somebody (Starfleet?) to utilize the well-known and less well-known time travel resources in case a specific event really yells for intervention. And that somebody would then exercise its own judgement on whether use of time travel would be more trouble than worth.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tenacity]

They just show up and make a report when someone a temporal anomaly experience

Thus the "I" in DTI.

 

[Paul Weaver]

The novels have it that only Scotty and Spock know how to slingshot, based on what happened to the engines in Naked Time, which explains why everyone and his dog doesn't slingshot.

They also have it that janeway gets a free pass because if they stop her the Borg take over.

 

[Mytran]

Don't forget Spock! Without his on-the-spot mental calculations, most slingshot manoeuvres probably end up in the heart of a blazing sun.

 

[UssGlenn]

They also have it that janeway gets a free pass because if they stop her the Borg take over.

Right, all the "upstream" time agencies only exist in timelines where Janeway uses time travel to wipe out the Borg, so they don't want to stop it.

 

[Silvercrest]

"Is that a predestination argument? We hate those."

 

[Nyotarules]

The DTI wouldn't allow it.

The DTI recruited the crew lol

 

[Tenacity]

Bateman phaser'ed the DTI people into red glowing mist as soon as they arrived.

Then said they never showed up.

 

[Nyotarules]

Bateman phaser'ed the DTI people into red glowing mist as soon as they arrived.

Then said they never showed up.

Then said 'The coke made me do it'