So there's deadlock, Equinox, and killing Game. That makes 3. Are there any others?
Voyager is superior, it just is..
- Thread starter Refuge
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Personally I wouldn't count deadlock since they specifically addressed the fact that they had been making repairs.
I forget what episode but there is one later on where they are docked with something and trying to get away and it rips a chunk of the hull off. I remember harry saying it will rip them apart and chakotay saying then rip it apart
That's Fury, but history is changed/ time travel blah, so it doesn't count. They also mention repairs in Equinox. I'm just surprised there are so few episodes in general where Voyager is badly damaged.
You reminded me of something really cool about Voyager & ENT. When I was a kid watching TNG every week, I always wanted to see them do a space walk, in an EVA suit. It never happened until the movies. Both Voyager and Enterprise broke out the EVA suits a whole bunch of times. And it was about time Trek started doing this!
That's what Trip has to do. Go out there an fix it. If there's a little scratch, he has to paint it. He most likely brings the plating inside, paints it, then goes back out. You also see lots of welding on ENT. In Voyager's time, they replicate the hull plate that needs to be replaced, then go put it on using the shuttle pods/worker bee things.
You reminded me of something really cool about Voyager & ENT. When I was a kid watching TNG every week, I always wanted to see them do a space walk, in an EVA suit. It never happened until the movies. Both Voyager and Enterprise broke out the EVA suits a whole bunch of times. And it was about time Trek started doing this!
One episode that I really enjoyed was "One Small step" and the exploration of some of Earth's history and space program. Nice bit of world building.
I have been thinking a bit and cannot , in fact think of any other instances with huge damage (other than in alternate timelines, so yes, they don't count). Caretaker perhaps? We don't know how badly the ship itself was damaged but with several dead on-screen (and probably much more off-screen as well) I'd imagine the ship to be badly bruised , too.
I would also expect the ship to be at least moderately damaged (perhaps requiring somewhat more than a week of repairs) in episodes such as basics where there were battles and explosions both within and around the ship several times.
Still, there are a lot of instances with moderate damage, and I'd think they add up. Especially in the first 2 years, when we're supposed to believe they are mostly trying to evade the Kazon and the Vidians. You can patch up your engine room after a Kazon attact that damaged your ship so badly you can only do warp 2, but I would expect there are only so many times you can do so, before you really would need a major overhaul, which we see them give Voyager, well, once, in year 7, if I'm not mistaken. If only they had known they'd be home a mere 16 episodes later they could have kept the counter at 0, and it would have looked even nicer on Janeway's resume....
As for the shuttles, I have to apologise, as I misworded there. I didn't mean to say they were churning them out in fleets at the time, but that they eventually had to build a fleet's worth of them, over the series run. 10 shuttles lost is only counting those we're absolutely sure about, the tally is probably significantly higher. According to the detailed table given in http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/inconsistencies-voy.htm , 10 were definitively lost, another 7 probably lost, and an additonal 8 badly damaged. Picking a number in the middle range would average in building 2 shuttles per year and a major overhaul for a third. I'm positive that can be done in terms of manpower (seeing as they built the more complex Delta Flyer in a week or so), but still I think the resource management officer (whoever that may be) isn't too thrilled about it, strained as the supplies are -- but yes, shuttles are a necessity.
I would also expect the ship to be at least moderately damaged (perhaps requiring somewhat more than a week of repairs) in episodes such as basics where there were battles and explosions both within and around the ship several times.
Still, there are a lot of instances with moderate damage, and I'd think they add up. Especially in the first 2 years, when we're supposed to believe they are mostly trying to evade the Kazon and the Vidians. You can patch up your engine room after a Kazon attact that damaged your ship so badly you can only do warp 2, but I would expect there are only so many times you can do so, before you really would need a major overhaul, which we see them give Voyager, well, once, in year 7, if I'm not mistaken. If only they had known they'd be home a mere 16 episodes later they could have kept the counter at 0, and it would have looked even nicer on Janeway's resume....
As for the shuttles, I have to apologise, as I misworded there. I didn't mean to say they were churning them out in fleets at the time, but that they eventually had to build a fleet's worth of them, over the series run. 10 shuttles lost is only counting those we're absolutely sure about, the tally is probably significantly higher. According to the detailed table given in http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/inconsistencies-voy.htm , 10 were definitively lost, another 7 probably lost, and an additonal 8 badly damaged. Picking a number in the middle range would average in building 2 shuttles per year and a major overhaul for a third. I'm positive that can be done in terms of manpower (seeing as they built the more complex Delta Flyer in a week or so), but still I think the resource management officer (whoever that may be) isn't too thrilled about it, strained as the supplies are -- but yes, shuttles are a necessity.
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Yes, that's also something I enjoyed about ENT, seeing real hull work being done in spacesuits. I always thought the "painting" bit was a joke. I mean after all, if you're out there in hostile territory, the last thing you want to do is have your people spending time with cosmetics. Fix the breach, test the seal, and leave the polishing to the dry dock folks!
Did they ever repair the hull while the ship was traveling at impulse or warp??
I love it in the 37s when they land the ship. So cool. I guess there were red shirt minions scraping her barnacles then but for me it was the whole sequence of like.. "We're going to land the ship??!" A few parts of that episode were just sheer fun. Finding the truck, it backfiring.. Tuvok ready to shoot.
You've got to admit Voyager landing is something superi... hang on, let's just say cool.
You've got to admit Voyager landing is something superi... hang on, let's just say cool.
Agrees. I always loved seeing Voyager land
And taking off also.
Every time I watch that I still cringe...and in Year of Hell when Voyager rams into the time ship
Cute 
I guess the ship became a refuge. More than that because they weren't able to escape from danger, she was their home and their shield. Janeway sweet talking the replicator, trying to explain to Tuvok the relationship.
Year Of Hell was in many ways the perfect example of Voyager becoming depleted and unable to be her mighty self. What would be left of her without resources, without replicators, with limited repairs and support, and up against an obsession. The degradation, the struggles.. hiding.. regrouping, and finally the sacrifice of Voyager itself. It is a heroic Captain's moment in my opinion. Sad bits in it. Chakotay giving Janeway the watch, her rejection of it and later, regret. Tuvok going blind. Seven guiding him. Tuvok not wanting to leave Janeway. You know I value the episode but I'm glad it was just for that year.. I wouldn't have wanted Voyager to take that tone throughout its run. Realistic or not.
I guess the ship became a refuge. More than that because they weren't able to escape from danger, she was their home and their shield. Janeway sweet talking the replicator, trying to explain to Tuvok the relationship.
Year Of Hell was in many ways the perfect example of Voyager becoming depleted and unable to be her mighty self. What would be left of her without resources, without replicators, with limited repairs and support, and up against an obsession. The degradation, the struggles.. hiding.. regrouping, and finally the sacrifice of Voyager itself. It is a heroic Captain's moment in my opinion. Sad bits in it. Chakotay giving Janeway the watch, her rejection of it and later, regret. Tuvok going blind. Seven guiding him. Tuvok not wanting to leave Janeway. You know I value the episode but I'm glad it was just for that year.. I wouldn't have wanted Voyager to take that tone throughout its run. Realistic or not.
Agree to disagree. I wouldn't have wanted a whole show with that tone, but the first couple of seasons, until Voyager establishes some allies and supports-yes, I would have enjoyed that. No, I don't want dark and depressing. I want the Captain Janeway who stands by her principles even when it is tough, so that when she encounters Captain Ransom later on in their journey, she can state that she has been there, and chosen differently.
Just a little more thematic for me. Probably expecting too much of a Star Trek series
Just a little more thematic for me. Probably expecting too much of a Star Trek series
The crew count is pretty consistent. At the most excellent ex-astris-scientia.org, they show that except of one or two very specific crew counts(among dozens) they are usually quite accurate. What's even better: with all the extras included, there's about 140 people seen, and about 130 named and seen. This is pretty incredible considering that it's over the course of seven years. If they had shown, say 200 different crewmembers total, then there'd be a problem.
It always makes me sad to hear people on here call writers "lazy." It's a generalization to begin with, and also an unfair and uniformed opinion. Do you mean a certain writer of a certain episode was lazy? Or a certain writer was lazy during many episodes? Or are you saying that every writer of every episode of this show was lazy? I guess at least you have the courtesy to input "in general" into your generalizations, but what do I know? You're the doctor.
You think that TNG was more different from TOS than VOY was from TNG? TNG: The show that used unused TOS and Phase II scripts, and recycled so many TOS episodes just adding the utopia angle. And Enterprise, the show that was truly different from all of them. The show that experimented with 3 different formats in just 4 seasons.
What does this mean? I don't understand. And since when was Voyager's premise "a desperate group of people thrown into battle for survival?" I don't think we needed Voyager to be like BSG. A show where the characters are always immature, unrealictically unprofessional, usually immoral, and often despicable. If NuBSG was what you sought from Voyager, than be happy with NuBSG, we'll be happy they aren't the same show.
And when ENT does recycle plot elements, or sometimes even whole episodes, which well did they reach into? The Voyager well...
I hate to be the guy that chainquotes, so I'll just ask. It sounds like you're saying that it's Voyager and Enterprise fans who don't like the Abramsverse material, and wanted another 24th century show. Is that correct?
You sound awfully angry and defensive.
I think my point was clear. Voyager was more of the same. Yes, far more of the same than any of the other series (TNG and ENT included). That doesn't mean it was a "bad show" (which I made abundantly clear). It means that to assume that the only way a new series can be entertaining or move the franchise forward is to be set in the future is incorrect and flawed thinking, given that Voyager was set chronologically in the future, and did absolutely nothing of the sort.
I didn't say Voyager blew. I didn't say Voyager fans were dolts. I didn't say I liked or preferred nuBSG.
If that's not clear, I need to assume that your hurt feelings are getting in the way of comprehension. To me, it's clear based on how you reacted to my passage and that of the other individual, that you are a little emotional about the whole thing. Maybe time to gain some new perspective.
Defensive? Sure. Angry? I didn't get that sense rereading my quoted post just now. There's no need to be dismissive, or at least point out what I said that was antagonistic. Defending art/film/storytelling is a perfectly honorable action. Especially when others are calling "lazy" what a great many people put a lot of hard work into. It's even worse when an entire series is written off for what are either peripheral issues; or in many of the things being discussed, mostly mythical.
As for your earlier comment, I disagree with your opinion that Voy followed some tired formula, or that it didn't follow its premise. You stated many of these things as concrete, and then say "don't throw rotten eggs" as if Voyager fans are irrational, emotional, and angry. It's a little condescending(no offense.)
The last part about Nutrek I was confused about, and was asking a straightforward question. I realize now that you were replying to the original post, but when reading your post in combination with the comments before it, a different impression is made.
I apologize if I sounded rude. I wasn't "writing in anger."
That's such an amazing site. I'm not sure if it's one person who runs it, or many, but every article feels like it's the same guy writing.
I wouldn't have watched past the first two episodes if the third episdoe was depressing.Agree to disagree. I wouldn't have wanted a whole show with that tone, but the first couple of seasons, until Voyager establishes some allies and supports-yes, I would have enjoyed that. No, I don't want dark and depressing. I want the Captain Janeway who stands by her principles even when it is tough, so that when she encounters Captain Ransom later on in their journey, she can state that she has been there, and chosen differently.
Just a little more thematic for me. Probably expecting too much of a Star Trek series
I suspect Discovery is going to suffer from this. It is already carrying a disappointing setting.
Multiple writers but yes, it is well, for the most part, well done.
There is little about a pre-TOS era setting that I find depressing.
As for VOY, I would never make the argument for the tone to be depressing. I would make the argument that the challenges be difficult, potentially depressing, without the crew succumbing to that feeling. Again, a more evolved sentiment.
You didn't sound rude to me..
Let's think about a fact and its a beauty. The shows that ran the longest.. Next Gen, DS 9 and Voyager, each for seven seasons. Chronologically setting? A future trend.. that worked. Then we get Enterprise .. yeah three seasons and a bust.
Maybe Discovery will last one season or two or three who knows? Setting it in the past of the franchise is boring.
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