Spoilers DC's Legends of Tomorrow - Season 2

[Phoenix219]

But he then brought that Thawne back to the present with him and let him get away. So that Thawne should have never been stuck in 2000, become Harrison Wells, and did all the other stuff we know. So it's inconsistent.

Exactly. The time remnant should have been a place holder to become Harrison Wells, while the primary Thawne is released from his destiny, from a point in his personal timeline before the events that set Eddie into removing him are begun, no longer bound by past casual events. This Thawne should only have memories up until the night he tried to kill Nora, and whatever he learned from Barry during Flashpoint imprisonment. The only thing that makes sense is that through the speedforce, he was able to aquire his primary memories / consciousness.

 

[Christopher]

I like how snart said they could go get incarcerated in iron heights and plan a prison break like old times

I figured that was a reference to their old show, but I never watched that (well, maybe the first episode or two before losing interest). I've seen promos for the revival of that show on FOX lately, and I keep thinking, "What are Captain Cold and Heat Wave doing there?"

 

[DigificWriter]

Can somebody help me figure how how to explain why The Flash and Arrow's disconnectedness from what's going on in Legends is such a bad thing? I've already tried explaining how it defies narrative logic and breaks the conceit of the Spear of Destiny rewriting reality, and yet I keep getting pushback that basically amounts to "it doesn't matter that those two shows are disconnected from Legends because Legends is going to undo everything they've done by the end of the finale anyway".

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

Because those are still different shows with different narratives and fanbases. At the end of the day, they are separate entities and one can't assume that because a person watches one show that they watch all 3. Or 4.

Besides, what does it even mean to alter reality? With so many earths, did the Spear just create a new one technically? Or does every earth have their own spear and it only changes that specific reality (but how can that even be true if realities interact?)

At the end of the day, let the Legends team tell their story and crossover when it's warranted. This wouldn't be the time so close to the ending of the stories the other creative teams are trying to tell and wrap up.

 

[DigificWriter]

^ I don't think you understood the question: I need a new way to articulate why The Flash and Arrow's narratives continuing on like normal even though Legends rewrote the fabric of space-time itself ruins the believability of the latter narrative, not reasons doubling down on the opposite argument.

 

[Christopher]

^ I don't think you understood the question: I need a new way to articulate why The Flash and Arrow's narratives continuing on like normal even though Legends rewrote the fabric of space-time itself ruins the believability of the latter narrative, not reasons doubling down on the opposite argument.

It doesn't "ruin" it, it just doesn't mesh well with it. It's just a mild criticism, something that could've worked better than it did, not a catastrophic failure. It's incongruous to be presented with the claim of all reality being permanently rewritten in an episode airing immediately after a story in which the original reality continued on unaffected. It might've worked better if they could've rearranged the schedule so that these episodes aired during a hiatus in the other shows.

 

[DigificWriter]

@Christopher It's more than things "not meshing well", something that I thought you recognized based on your own previous comments... especially since it says within the episode itself that the Legion's rewritten reality stretches back to March of 2016.

 

[Commander Richard]

They're going to undo this reality so from the perspective of the other shows, it'll be as if it never happened which is what we are seeing already.

 

[DigificWriter]

They're going to undo this reality so from the perspective of the other shows, it'll be as if it never happened which is what we are seeing already.

Why do people insist on trotting out this argument, which doesn't even remotely make sense in regards to how Legends has presented its narrative vis a vis what the Spear of Destiny is supposed to do?

Maybe I really am a "nation of one" in regards to my stance on how absolutely nonsensical and stupid the way this whole thing has unfolded relative to what we're seeing happen on The Flash and Arrow is.

* Sigh *

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

As long as the changes get reversed the whole alternate reality is shoved into a bubble universe.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

Why do people insist on trotting out this argument, which doesn't even remotely make sense in regards to how Legends has presented its narrative vis a vis what the Spear of Destiny is supposed to do?

Maybe I really am a "nation of one" in regards to my stance on how absolutely nonsensical and stupid the way this whole thing has unfolded relative to what we're seeing happen on The Flash and Arrow is.

* Sigh *

The Spear of Destiny created a brand new reality that branched off of the old one that's still continuing fine. That's a basic enough sci-fi conceit that could work here.

In a universe of multiverses, it's almost tougher to believe this not to being the case.

I mean, what could you even do with those other shows? Everybody important is dead.

 

[DigificWriter]

The Spear of Destiny created a brand new reality that branched off of the old one that's still continuing fine. That's a basic enough sci-fi conceit that could work here.

That's not how the Spear of Destiny is supposed to work as presented.

I mean, what could you even do with those other shows? Everybody important is dead.

Which is why The Flash and Arrow should've postponed the events of Abra Kadabra and Disbanded for two weeks until Legends finished.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

That's not how the Spear of Destiny is supposed to work as presented.

Not trying to be difficult, but I don't recall one way or another if alternate reality theory was contradicted. I admit I could have easily missed a line or two (but then, characters can say anything and even believe it, but it doesn't necessarily make it true)

Would Supergirl be affected by this as well?

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

I don't think so.
The legion doesn't even know about that particular Earth.
And Flashpoint didn't effect Earth 2 either.

 

[sojourner]

Which is why The Flash and Arrow should've postponed the events of Abra Kadabra and Disbanded for two weeks until Legends finished.

What difference would that make beyond frustrating people that only watch those shows? It's not like we are seeing these shows in real time to begin with.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

What difference would that make beyond frustrating people that only watch those shows? It's not like we are seeing these shows in real time to begin with.

Yeah, when people stream Arrow next year on Netflix or whenever, a one-off episode that just serves to stop their momentum for no real reason is best left out. Nobody will question anything after this week.

 

[Christopher]

@Christopher It's more than things "not meshing well", something that I thought you recognized based on your own previous comments... especially since it says within the episode itself that the Legion's rewritten reality stretches back to March of 2016.

Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I "don't recognize" some objective truth. You have your opinion, I have mine, others have theirs. It's not like this is the first major inconsistency in the Arrowverse, let alone within LoT. If we weren't able to shrug off the bits that don't add up, we couldn't enjoy this franchise at all. I can acknowledge a flaw without considering it a dealbreaker.

 

[DigificWriter]

It's not like we are seeing these shows in real time to begin with.

Actually, we are. Arrow and The Flash operate pretty much in real-time (as does Supergirl).

Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I "don't recognize" some objective truth. You have your opinion, I have mine, others have theirs. It's not like this is the first major inconsistency in the Arrowverse, let alone within LoT. If we weren't able to shrug off the bits that don't add up, we couldn't enjoy this franchise at all. I can acknowledge a flaw without considering it a dealbreaker.

This is more a case of me misreading the level of your criticism, which is my fault entirely.

 

[Romulan_spy]

Maybe I really am a "nation of one" in regards to my stance on how absolutely nonsensical and stupid the way this whole thing has unfolded relative to what we're seeing happen on The Flash and Arrow is.
* Sigh *

Unfortunately, I think you are alone on this. Sorry. Yes, from a "realism" standpoint, you are right that the shows should be consistent with each other. In theory, yes, we should see the effects of Doomworld on Arrow and Flash. In theory, yes, the spear of destiny should alter the realities of Arrow and Flash too. It might even be interesting to have an episode of Arrow and The Flash that explore how Doomworld has affected them. Those are the only arguments I can come up with in favor it. But there are stronger arguments against it. It would mess up the writing process for Arrow and Flash since those shows have different writing teams. It would confuse the audience who don't watch Legends. And it is not needed since the "doomworld" reality is going to be undone anyway. You are asking Arrow and Flash to move around their stories, insert an alt reality episode that would confuse the audience, only to change everything back once Legends fixes things. It just makes more sense to keep the Legends storyline separate. Plus, from an in-universe standpoint, it could be argued that Arrow and Flash never experience the doomworld reality since the legends undo it. The Legends were directly affected by the new reality so they experienced it but Arrow and Flash only experience the "final" reality after Legends fix things. it is simple and neat.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

As a crossover event it would work.
But that's not what they went for.