Who else here likes the Hirogen?

[Ghost]

Hello all,

Recently I was thinking about my favorite Season 4 episodes again (I consider parts of that season and season 5 the best of Voyager's run) and one of my favorite alien antagonists in it (or even in Voyager) were the Hirogen, a Predator like (perhaps not as elaborately designed and worked out) species of giants that hunt other species including sentient ones and take remains of them as trophies, even willing to go into extreme hazardous environments to pursue their prey for the thrill of the hunt.

Now I admit they are not a really well developed antagonist, they were pretty stereotypical in their first appearances, rather two dimension fascists, before they got partly "domesticated" in "The Killing Game" and even more fully so in "Flesh and Blood" (as well as reducing in size). But I just liked how much different they were compared to a lot of Voyager's antagonists outside the Borg, and how they were a threat in their own right that could not be humanized (well before they were humanized of course) and in general were not interested in Voyager's technology.

I found them a lot more interesting than previously recurring antagonists such as the Kazon and the Viidians or the later Malon (the one in "Nights" was okay but I honestly don't think interstellar garbage men make such a good recurring antagonist), and I would not have minded if the types from "Hunters" and "Prey" had made more appearances.

On a side note, should Voyager have done a "A species of the season" each season (one alien species/culture that makes more appearances during which the watcher can learn more about them?). It might have helped make the Delta Quadrant feel more "worked out" for the lack of a better description.

The Borg could still have made appearances but perhaps in smaller doses instead of the overuse they suffered after "Scorpion".

 

[Finn]

I wish they kept their original size.

 

[Tosk]

I wish they kept their original size.

Same. At least cast bigger actors, fer cripes sake.

 

[Sophie74656]

I liked them a lot. And i agree with the size comments

 

[Ghost]

So far you are the only one Sophie74656 who mentions something else than their size

Do people feel that there were any "memorable" species on Voyager outside the Borg (technically they are from TNG)?

 

[The Wormhole]

Do people feel that there were any "memorable" species on Voyager outside the Borg

I kind of liked the Malon, particularly the work that was done with them in Juggernaut which made them a bit more than the one-dimensional evil garbage men in space of their other episodes. We learn a bit more about their culture, including why some of them go into space and expose themselves to lethal doses of radiation to make a living.

But yeah, I also found the Hirogen a really cool race, and IMO Voyager could have benefitted from developing them a lot more than dipping into the Borg well as often as they did. Although, I guess I shouldn't be so hard on their Borg episodes, the only Borg storyline which was completely irredeemable, IMO, was Unimatrix Zero.

 

[Ghost]

Well, after the mini arc with the Hirogen and the Malon had made several appearances I thought that every season afterwards we would get to see a new species that would get several episodes of development such as the Vaadwaur.
That however did not prove to be the case.

the only Borg storyline which was completely irredeemable, IMO, was Unimatrix Zero.

Gotta be honest man, I feel that after "Scorpion" and "Drone" (the episode with the 29th Century Borg drone) it would have been better if there had not been more Borg episodes. Unimatrix Zero as you mentioned but also "Dark Frontier", the Borg Kids episodes, and of course "Endgame".
If they could not be used properly it would have been better not to use them at all.

But yeah, I also found the Hirogen a really cool race, and IMO Voyager could have benefitted from developing them a lot more

Well it would probably have been difficult to keep up their menacing factor while revealing more about them but I think it would have been better to make them into an "Iconic Voyager species" people would remember better.

 

[The Wormhole]

I thought that every season afterwards we would get to see a new species that would get several episodes of development such as the Vaadwaur

Ah, yes, the Vaadwaur. Yeah, a shame we never ran into them again, the ending of Dragon's Teeth sure seemed to be setting something up.

Gotta be honest man, I feel that after "Scorpion" and "Drone" (the episode with the 29th Century Borg drone) it would have been better if there had not been more Borg episodes.

I don't necessarily disagree, though Dark Frontier did have enough merit as a character piece that I'm okay with that.

 

[Ghost]

Ah, yes, the Vaadwaur. Yeah, a shame we never ran into them again, the ending of Dragon's Teeth sure seemed to be setting something up.

And they were originally "advertised" as a recurring foe for the crew of Voyager.
The writer team could have done stories with the Vaadwaur in which the Voyager crew encounters them again while they are trying to rebuild their empire and plots tied into that.

I don't necessarily disagree, though Dark Frontier did have enough merit as a character piece that I'm okay with that.

That I won't deny. I just think the Borg Queen should not have been used again, and the Borg having an interest in Seven and her individuality.

 

[Hey Missy]

Why didn't the Vaadwaur make another appearance in the series? Season 6 just had no sense of direction at all.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Like a lot of things in Voyager, the Hirogen ultimately never lived up to their potential. They had a great concept--especially aesthetically speaking. But the culture just sort of fizzled out to nothing, even by Killing Game. One thing that always disappointed me about that episode is I would have been much more interested in the events leading up to Voyager's capture than the whole WWII motif in and of itself, which I've always found a little tired and trite.

 

[Paradise City]

I wish they kept the Hirogen large, forbidding, men of few words. They kinda become any old species by the end of their arc. But the Hirogen are a good concept.

 

[Voth commando1]

I liked the Hirogen hunting nomads, not warriors but still to be feared.

 

[Ghost]

You basically say everything what I am thinking CorporalClegg, about the Hirogen, about "The Killing Game" episode, about Star Trek Voyager in general.

the whole WWII motif in and of itself, which I've always found a little tired and trite.

It was damn cliche. The idea of an enlightened Hirogen leader studying alien histories because he seeks a new path for his people to prevent them from going extinct is not a bad one, but it ended up as a weak excuse to do a "holodeck gone wild" story involving holographic Nazis.

There could have been a much more interesting "The Hirogen take over Voyager" story.

I wish they kept the Hirogen large, forbidding, men of few words

Yep, that is also how I wanted to keep them. That everything Voyager's crew even detected a hint of their presence that they would be very alert and try to avoid a hunting party at all costs.

Why didn't the Vaadwaur make another appearance in the series? Season 6 just had no sense of direction at all.

I like parts of Season 4 and 5, but Voyager really suffered from a lack of focus, especially in the later seasons.
It was clear that the producers had no idea where to go with the show any more other than "episodes of the week" format.

I also have no idea why the Vaadwaur never appeared again on the series. we could have honestly done without a lot of the weekly episode alien antagonist fillers the crew kept running into.

 

[Voth commando1]

Well Voyager didn't need to run into multiple same species as the show was them traveling from one point to home-the only excuses you can make are the Borg-transwarp, Vaadvaur-underspace tunnels, Voth-transwarp, and Hirogen-widely dispersed nomads.

The kazon had holdings from near the array to that nebula(see Fair Trade), the Vidiians were spread out hunting organs, and a few others where there was a good reason for Voyager to encounter them

As it is WW2 stories will be popular until at least the end of the century.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Voyager should have taken "a baddie a season" approach from the get-go.

 

[Paradise City]

I liked the way the holodeck fantasy becomes sprawled out into the ship and reality becomes blurred and we even have Klingons at one point, lol. I eschew Nazi episodes typically but I do forgive this episode because I liked the surrealness of it. .

 

[Hey Missy]

Voyager should have taken "a baddie a season" approach from the get-go.

They did, at first:
Seasons 1 and 2 had the Kazon and Vidiians.
Season 3... well the Nekrit Expanse was a continuing theme
Season 4 had the Hirogen
Season 5 had the Malon

 

[Voth commando1]

Season 6 should have had the Vaadvaur.

 

[Hey Missy]

Season 6 should have had the Vaadvaur.

They set them up as if they were going to have a mini-arc within the season like they did with the Hirogen and Malon... but decided to do more "X of the week" stories instead.
Seasons 6 and 7 make me sad. I think those last two years are where the so-called "franchise fatigue" came from. There's still great standalone episodes here and there, but the show stopped having a purpose. It was just on autopilot.