Iron Fist (Marvel/Netflix)

[M.A.C.O.]

I've been thinking, with the faux outrage by critics and internet journalist at Iron Fist/Danny Rand. How would things be if another well known story a of kid named Daniel LaRusso who learned an Asian martial art, would play with today's critics? Just think about it for a moment.

 

[Skipper]

Finn Jones is really Halle Berry's Catwoman? Who knew!

Catwoman was simply a bad movie. According to Internet, Finn Jones is the only culprit of decades of racism in Western cinema and had, single handed, insulted every single member of the Asian American Community and their deep believes in Kung-Fu. Really, he (and only he) is the pinnacle of centuries of xenophobic hate towards Asian peoples and probably the biggest liability in the diplomatic relationships with People's Republic of China after Trump.
Probably now he have to fear that people spit at him when he walks along the streets.

Or he just played the role of a guy who learned Kung-Fu. Your choice.

 

[Jax]

Reading Twitter (of course a small portion of the overall audience) it seems most are giving the critic's the middle finger and saying the show is good. Myself I am going to binge watch the show with a friend tomorrow and probably Sunday.

 

[tenmei]

Halfway through now - taking a break to watch some fitness vlogs - and it's still awesome. Finn is pretty much the perfect Danny Rand - at times bewildered and childlike, at others calm and controlled whilst at others a cocky teenager. The fight sequences aren't necessarily as intense - but it suits the feel of the show.

 

[Commander Richard]

Spoilers for 1x01 and 1x02...
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There it is! The fist!

This is a great show so far. I don't know what all the fuss is about. No insensitivity that I can see, no cultural appropriation and it's not boring. It's also moving along at a good pace with two solid episodes that are bringing Danny closer to re-asserting himself in the world.

So far...

• Bad move for Ward. His fixation with Danny is what made Colleen curious. Why would a rich and powerful guy be so concerned with a vagrant off the street?
• Daddy Meachum is a fascinating character. It takes an eccentric guy to believe Danny's story. And of course, there's more to him. What does he know about the Hand?
• Bad move for Danny. Once the doc believed him, he should have stopped right there. And why does the doc think he's crazy? They're living in the Marvel universe.
• I hope we see more of Kunlun.

 

[Skipper]

No insensitivity that I can see, no cultural appropriation and it's not boring.

Right now Finn Jones is probably the most insulted actor on Twitter. For what? For some accusation about racism on a show that wasn't even released?

I really want to understand how some imaginary crime justifies vile acts against a real person.

 

[Kor]

Damn - this is awesome so far. Three episodes in, and I really have no idea what the critics were talking about in their reviews. Practically none of it is correct from my viewpoint.

Like food critics, media critics don't have the joy of making the actual product, or even just enjoying the product at the level of an everyday consumer; all they can do is look for things to criticize from their lofty vantage point, whether justified or connected with reality or not.

Kor

 

[kirk55555]

Like food critics, media critics don't have the joy of making the actual product, or even just enjoying the product at the level of an everyday consumer; all they can do is look for things to criticize from their lofty vantage point, whether justified or connected with reality or not.

Kor

Or maybe they just have different opinions? Claiming that critics, en masse at least, are actively looking to hate something is ridiculous. Now, some critics might be, and there can be a differences between critics and mainstream opiniona, but I don't believe its some planned thing. At most its a kind of "cultural" thing, but I find that usually only seems to come into play with very artsy stuff. In general, trying to dismiss critics opinions (generally on things you like but they don't) by claiming they just want to hate something just makes no sense. I like some movies that critics hate, but I'd never say they hate, say, Hansel & Gretel: Witch Hunters or Armageddon because they were looking to hate something. You can disagree with critics without the critics being corrupt or something like that.

 

[Reverend]

Watching episode 2 right now. Bit of a slow start, but that's par for the course with this kind of show.
I think I see where some of the "whitesplaining" criticism comes from, though I think they're misconstruing it for social naivety. He doesn't think of himself or others in ethnic terms, so when he corrects someone he doesn't see how it might look condecending.

 

[Commander Richard]

The actor who plays Ward reminded me of someone. Couldn't figure out who, then I realized that it might be James Remar. There's a resemblance.

Right now Finn Jones is probably the most insulted actor on Twitter. For what? For some accusation about racism on a show that wasn't even released?

I really want to understand how some imaginary crime justifies vile acts against a real person.

Sometimes these things can snowball out of control and it looks like that's what happened. Everyone piles on.

Watching episode 2 right now. Bit of a slow start, but that's par for the course with this kind of show.

I almost wanted to say that but it's nice to see a show that takes us on a journey and doesn't just start in the middle out of fear that the audience will get bored. Plus, each episode was good and offered up a full and relevant chapter that advanced Danny's story.

I think I see where some of the "whitesplaining" criticism comes from, though I think they're misconstruing it for social naivety. He doesn't think of himself or others in ethnic terms, so when he corrects someone he doesn't see how it might look condecending.

Yeah, the writing is good and the character doesn't come off that way so it's not something that sticks out.

1x03...

• I'm glad that they're dealing with Danny trying to get his shares back and that they're not just glossing over it with a few throwaway lines like a lot of other shows would. I wondered how that would be possible from a legal standpoint. Wouldn't someone already own the shares since the family is dead? Looks like everything was in a trust.
• I thought that Joy was badly written with her flip-flopping but it looks like she's on Danny's side in a situation that she describes as "complicated" with her brother and all.

 

[Commander Richard]

For me, things have slowed down by episode 4 but the show is still good and I'm finding this to be the most gripping of the Netflix shows. I can see a bit of what critics were saying. They don't like the corporate stuff. I don't mind it though. Also, for a martial arts themed show, it's pretty light on the stylized fighting. Daredevil probably did better in that department. But then again, there's nine episodes to go.

As for cultural appropriation, Danny might be front and center as the Iron Fist and Meachum Sr., has shown himself to be an enthusiast of the martial arts and seems to have some skill of his own, but...

Spoiler

Neither are in charge of the bigger picture.

Spoilers for 1x04...
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• Danny was acting a bit too silly and too much like a fish out of water once he entered the corporate scene.
• I like Jessica Stroup's character, Joy. Attractive and formidable.
• Could Danny just override corporate decisions they way he did with the drug? He's the majority shareholder, he can appoint and fire those who actually run the company but he can't run the company or make business decisions himself.
• So far, it looks more like they're building towards The Defenders. We'll see.

 

[Commander Richard]

The First Six Episodes:

The show got off to a gripping start with the first three episodes, then I felt that there was a tiny bit of a dip with the fourth, topped off with the story kicking into gear with episodes 5 and 6. The show so far has been more than just a rich kid and family squabbles. It provided a good intro, built a foundation and gave us a bit of everything that the Iron Fist is supposed to be about.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

I watched episodes 1 thru 6 last night and to be honest I don't get the hate being piled on this show or towards Finn Jones. Like all Marvel shows it is a slow burn. Corporate intrigue is nothing new to the superhero genre, it's also somewhat vital to the character as the writers couldn't just gloss over the fact that Danny is the rightful heir to a multi-billion company. Finn Jones takes a while to find his feet but i felt like he got it together in episode 6. As for the criticism (based on only 6 episodes), that the series has no overarching societal themes like jessica jones and luke cage episode 6 shows that this may not be the case. It certainly appears that there may have been an element of abuse in Danny's upbringing in kun lun. It's apparent that he's viewed purely as a weapon and an object to be controlled by his master and that he may have escaped because of this. I'm intrigued to see how it plays out.

The characters are all interesting to different degrees. Joy and Colleen and both formidable, yet vulnerable without being weak or damsel-in-distressy. My hope is that they don't become rivals for Danny's affections. I'm interested to see what makes Ward tick, why he's an addict and his relationship with his father. Which leads me to Harold, David Wenham plays the role with a real intensity. I'm not convinced yet he is an all out villain, but i do feel that he sees danny as his way to escape the hand.

It's also great to have madame gao back. Maternal and threatening at the same time, i'm looking forward to learning more about the character, now that she doesn't have to share the villain spotlight.

I'll wait to see the rest of the series before i say it's another solid outing by marvel or a misstep, but so far so good!

 

[Commander Richard]

I though the guy said "You have more YouTube views than that Oliver Queen guy."

Then I rewound it and heard what he really said.

 

[Commander Richard]

Also, for a martial arts themed show, it's pretty light on the stylized fighting. Daredevil probably did better in that department. But then again, there's nine episodes to go.

I did appreciate a bit of zui quan aka the "drunken fist" style.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I'm planning to watch this one episode per week. Just because something can be binged doesn't mean that it must be binged.

 

[Skipper]

Sometimes these things can snowball out of control and it looks like that's what happened. Everyone piles on.

Yep. I believe that the main responsibility lies on the shoulder of Keith Chow, who accused Marvel of racial insensitivity and white-washing (and we are talking about a character that was always white). After that the Internet happily lashed out at Finn Jones, the (white) public face of the show.
When you make accusations and you know what kind of people infest internet, you bear a part of responsibility for their subsequent actions. Because words have consequences.

On this thread itself someone said that probably the show was an example of the White Savior trope, even when it was clear from every available synopsis or early review that the main character don't white-save anyone, literally or figuratively. Someone else said that kung-fu is a so integral part of Chinese culture, that the simple depiction of a white practitioner is inherently insulting toward the American Chinese Community.

People, don't be yourself let fooled by his angelic face. This guy is a monster.

 

[Gaith]

^ You made your point, than you made it again, and then repeated it several more times, and you're still at it, while adding nothing new. It's getting tiresome.

 

[CaptainWacky]

I'm finding Jessica Henwick's Colleen Wing may more compelling and watchable than the kind of dull Danny (three episodes in.)

 

[LJones41]

Catwoman was simply a bad movie. According to Internet, Finn Jones is the only culprit of decades of racism in Western cinema and had, single handed, insulted every single member of the Asian American Community and their deep believes in Kung-Fu. Really, he (and only he) is the pinnacle of centuries of xenophobic hate towards Asian peoples and probably the biggest liability in the diplomatic relationships with People's Republic of China after Trump.
Probably now he have to fear that people spit at him when he walks along the streets.

Or he just played the role of a guy who learned Kung-Fu. Your choice.

The "Catwoman" movie reminded me of the sci-fi movie that Charlize Theron did. I forgot the name. But I do remember it being equally crappy.


The premise of "IRON FIST" strongly reminds me of the CW's "ARROW".