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Starfleet is a Space Navy (military fleet)

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24th century
Join Starfleet - a non military organisation where you can legally blow stuff up and phaser Cardies!

23rd Century
Join Starfleet - a non military organisation where you can legally blow stuff up and phaser the Klinks!

22nd Century
Join Starfleet - a non military organisation where we have don't have a clue (no wonder the Vulcans want to shut us down)
 
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"Space is disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence. So bring a flashlight, an iPod, and a good pair of boots."
 
I wouldn't call the police a non-military organization either.

http://photographyisnotacrime.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Militarized-police.jpg

Again the word paramilitary is more suitable.

The military protect the state from its enemies, the police protect the people. When the military do the job of police, there becomes a problem.... or something. I am paraphrasing. But long story short...in most progressive or civilised setups, the police are not the military, and the military are not the police on a day to day basis. When they are, something has gone wrong or is about to.
 
The police fight internal threats to citizens. The military fights external enemies of the state. When the military becomes the police, the citizenry often becomes the enemy of the state.
 
Starfleet's primary purpose is the exploration of space, not pewpewing things with phasers.
Then why do they pew-pew so often?

Exploration is a activity they fill their time with, when they aren't undertaking their primary mission of offense/defense. Or something else that's higher on the list of priorities than exploration.

If there is a military mission, exploration gets pushed to the side
If there is a espionage mission, exploration gets pushed to the side
If there is a diplomatic mission, exploration gets pushed to the side
If there is a natural resources treaty to be signed ...
If there are VIP's to be picked up ...
If there is a pharmaceutical to be delivered ...
If they're over due for shore leave ...
If another starship is missing ...

If you look at the 700 plus episodes, exploration isn't the primary mission of the majority of those episodes, something else is.

Galileo Seven, they did stop to do some exploration, but the pharmaceuticals the ship was carrying was the priority, not the exploration.
 
C'mon BillJ, if Trek characters went through basic training with a drill instructor yelling in their faces, they would talk about it more than that one hard-ass instructor of astrophysics.

If the writers where thinking about boot camp, and understood the experiences of boot camp, it would have been in a script.
In the various Trek series, we follow the senior staff of the various ships/stations. They are Officers. "Boot Camp" is for enlisted personnel. And you can rest assured that enlisted personnel in Starfleet go through it. The Navy doesn't have Drill Instructors or Drill Sergeants, is has R.D.Ts (Recruit Division Commanders) Here's a quote:
"As if that's not enough to study in advance, you should also learn that Navy Boot Camp is probably one of the most "classroom-intensive" of the four primary military services"

After basic training, which serves to get you accustomed to the lifestyle change, and teaches you the basics, you go on to your specialized schooling for whatever Navy occupation you chose. Once you've tested and graduated, you move on to your duty station. This whole process can take 6 months to two years, and in rare cases, longer(Depending on what job you go for)

The only on-screen identification of the Enterprise as a "battleship" is also from an alternate universe.

No actually it's not. It's from an alternate timeline. I mentioned this earlier. The only difference of the two timelines is one is peacetime, and one is wartime. A war that the Federation was losing I might add. History was effected 22 years prior which started a war.

A military is not only a military during wartime, when it's on a wartime posture. The organization is the same.

Did you know that military law, which the armed forces of the U.S. are beholden to, changes depending on whether or not it's wartime. Starfleet is the same.
 
Okay, so if superficial aesthetic similarities are what define Starfleet as a 'military' for you, Baxten...

Please provide a screencap of two Starfleet officers saluting one another.
Superficial aesthetic similarities? More like fundamental internal structure and functionality. Starfleet functions as a military in every capacity. The most fundamental internal structure of a military is that it follows it's own martial justice system, which Starfleet does, and it's rank structure, responsibilities, and relationships, which Starfleet has.
 
Then why do they pew-pew so often?

Exploration is a activity they fill their time with, when they aren't undertaking their primary mission of offense/defense. Or something else that's higher on the list of priorities than exploration.

If there is a military mission, exploration gets pushed to the side
If there is a espionage mission, exploration gets pushed to the side
If there is a diplomatic mission, exploration gets pushed to the side
If there is a natural resources treaty to be signed ...
If there are VIP's to be picked up ...
If there is a pharmaceutical to be delivered ...
If they're over due for shore leave ...
If another starship is missing ...

If you look at the 700 plus episodes, exploration isn't the primary mission of the majority of those episodes, something else is.

Galileo Seven, they did stop to do some exploration, but the pharmaceuticals the ship was carrying was the priority, not the exploration.

100 percent of Ds9 episodes are exploration, because the whole thing is a great big first contact mission, or essentially one with the Bajorans. Everything feeds into that. I have discussed elsewhere why pew pew is very necessary when exploring an unknown dangerous frontier (don't be lunch...don't be an appetiser for your whole civilisation being lunch. See: The Borg.) and you would be hard pressed to find as many episodes that deal with military action as their prime concern. Harder still, ironically, for the movies.
 
It's from an alternate timeline.

Universe/timeline... whichever. English is my third language, so if you'll excuse the occasional imprecise translation from brain to keyboard.

As for Starfleet, simply because it engages in combat during wartime doesn't make it a military organization. A military's primary purpose is to fight wars. Even during peacetime, a military is always planning and training for war. It may have other functions, but the overriding mission of a military at all times is warfare.

Starfleet's primary mission is exploration. It has secondary functions, among them defense, but that does not ever override Starfleet's primary mission. By this benchmark Starfleet is not a military organization because it is not primarily focused on fighting wars. At best it makes Starfleet a paramilitary organization. Or, more precisely, it makes Starfleet Starfleet.

Just because it happens to hold some trappings of 20th and 21st Century military customs on the surface doesn't automatically make it the U.S. Navy in space. Starfleet officers don't salute. Starfleet officers don't go to bootcamp. Starfleet personnel don't have morning PT. Starfleet officers are not barred from fraternizing with Starfleet enlisted crew members. For every superficial similarity between Starfleet and contemporary military organizations, there are arguably far more differences between the two.

Starfleet is Starfleet. The U.S. Navy is the U.S. Navy. They are not, and should never be treated as, the same organization.
 
In the various Trek series, we follow the senior staff of the various ships/stations. They are Officers. "Boot Camp" is for enlisted personnel. And you can rest assured that enlisted personnel in Starfleet go through it. The Navy doesn't have Drill Instructors or Drill Sergeants, is has R.D.Ts (Recruit Division Commanders) Here's a quote:
"As if that's not enough to study in advance, you should also learn that Navy Boot Camp is probably one of the most "classroom-intensive" of the four primary military services"

After basic training, which serves to get you accustomed to the lifestyle change, and teaches you the basics, you go on to your specialized schooling for whatever Navy occupation you chose. Once you've tested and graduated, you move on to your duty station. This whole process can take 6 months to two years, and in rare cases, longer(Depending on what job you go for)



No actually it's not. It's from an alternate timeline. I mentioned this earlier. The only difference of the two timelines is one is peacetime, and one is wartime. A war that the Federation was losing I might add. History was effected 22 years prior which started a war.

A military is not only a military during wartime, when it's on a wartime posture. The organization is the same.

Did you know that military law, which the armed forces of the U.S. are beholden to, changes depending on whether or not it's wartime. Starfleet is the same.

Far from the only difference. In one the Federation is allied with its former enemies, and basically they are the only superpowers in town...the Romulan were in seclusion for much of those 22 years in 'our' timeline. So...to borrow a popular phrase here some days...nope. The Aero clubs of peacetime in the 1910s become militarised for the First World War, eventually becoming the RFC and then the RAF all in around the same 22 year timespan we have here to cover Starfleet becoming full on military following the events of Narendra III and Khitomer.
 
Superficial aesthetic similarities? More like fundamental internal structure and functionality. Starfleet functions as a military in every capacity. The most fundamental internal structure of a military is that it follows it's own martial justice system, which Starfleet does, and it's rank structure, responsibilities, and relationships, which Starfleet has.

Ranks tructures have been shown to be de facto shared across non military structures in the real world. Any exploration service going far from home has an essentially self contained martial justice system, including for example most maritime vessels.
 
Airlines have a Captain and a First Officer on every flight. Sometimes a Second Officer, too. And occasionally a Flight Engineer. They use rank insignia, often in the form of shoulder epaulets, or on sleeve cuffs. Does that mean when I board a Delta flight, I am getting on board a military jet?
 
Then why do they pew-pew so often?

Exploration is a activity they fill their time with, when they aren't undertaking their primary mission of offense/defense. Or something else that's higher on the list of priorities than exploration.

If there is a military mission, exploration gets pushed to the side
If there is a espionage mission, exploration gets pushed to the side
If there is a diplomatic mission, exploration gets pushed to the side
If there is a natural resources treaty to be signed ...
If there are VIP's to be picked up ...
If there is a pharmaceutical to be delivered ...
If they're over due for shore leave ...
If another starship is missing ...

If you look at the 700 plus episodes, exploration isn't the primary mission of the majority of those episodes, something else is.

Galileo Seven, they did stop to do some exploration, but the pharmaceuticals the ship was carrying was the priority, not the exploration.
I looked through the first two seasons of TNG the other day to see what the stated mission in the intro is. It was quite surprising. So out of 47 or so episodes:

The first episode where the mission is "exploring" is episode 16. And it's the only one is the first season.
There is one in season two that mentions "charting." And that's it!

18 episodes involve a distress call/rescue/recovery
10 are diplomatic, often involving potential war
1 is shore leave
1 planetary survey and one geological survey
1 "charting space"
1 "exploring"
3 episodes checking up on science missions, that is non-Starfleet science missions.
1 war games
2-3 medical crisis
5 ship maintenance
1 chasing pirates
1officer exchange program
1 unknown
and 1 helping Okana get laid...I mean distress call
 
Airlines have a Captain and a First Officer on every flight. Sometimes a Second Officer, too. And occasionally a Flight Engineer. They use rank insignia, often in the form of shoulder epaulets, or on sleeve cuffs. Does that mean when I board a Delta flight, I am getting on board a military jet?

Except Delta Airlines can't execute/revoke the freedom of members of its flight crews for breaking its rules. :rofl:
 
Many of those stories are in support of exploration, while perhaps not being literally involved in exploration. That's sort of like saying "NASA only has three astronauts on the International Space Station. So those other 20,000 employees obviously aren't involved in exploration in any capacity!"
 
It is a fun discussion and I thank everyone here for their thoughts, including folks I disagree with strongly. This board isn't the only place where the divide exists on whether or not Starfleet is the military. But this has been the most civil.
 
Airlines have a Captain and a First Officer on every flight. Sometimes a Second Officer, too. And occasionally a Flight Engineer. They use rank insignia, often in the form of shoulder epaulets, or on sleeve cuffs. Does that mean when I board a Delta flight, I am getting on board a military jet?
You keep making periphery comparisons and then lobbing it on as a more equal counterbalance. Show me one organization from the real world that is as consistent with a military, called a military, functions and acts as a military, etc, as Starfleet is, and I will apologize and permanently leave this thread.
 
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