Only, this guy wasn't Starfleet, but rather belonged to a private security firm. Granted, he's still an enemy combatant who was going to kill Scotty, so I'm not really sure what my point is, other than nitpicking.
Question, is Scotty a murderer?
- Thread starter Exigeous
- Start date
Been looking at this thread, assuming it was going to be about TOS Scotty, pretending that he was possessed by the ghost of Jack the Ripper, when really things just got drunkenly out of hand with a local girl after a good time.
It was clearly going to crash before Khan issued those commands. Khan just wanted to maximise the damage using what systems were still functional on the ship. Where it would have crashed is anybody's guess, but it was going down regardless.
You're also overlooking one important thing...
Well, no, scratch that. You're overlooking 72 important things:
If they had simply knocked the guard out, he would have been vaporized when the torpedoes exploded. And even if by some miracle he survived the explosion, he and everyone else on the ship except for Khan would have been crushed to death when Vengenace crashed into San Francisco.
IIRC, they leaned on the "You're not Starfleet you're Private Security (oooooh!)" so that it would be Ok to flush this guy because he was obviously Blackwater.
To answer the question: If a fellow is holding a gun on you and you shoot him instead makes you a murderer then Scotty is a murderer. If not, then no.
To answer the question: If a fellow is holding a gun on you and you shoot him instead makes you a murderer then Scotty is a murderer. If not, then no.
Of course. He's a murderer. Not a jerk.
I don't see how that's "clear." The ship was floating in lunar orbit. That doesn't make it clear it'll crash.
So who is this girl and how do I get an introduction? Geek McGeekFace really needs a Hottie McHottieFace!!
And once again I in no way think Scotty is a murderer, absolutely that was click-bait to get everyone here. That said I do think the scene could have easily shown the guard hitting the wall/hatch after it closed. Then later when the ship explodes we don't care where he is as we've not only forgotten about him but morally judged him so we don't care that he dies.
And finally I'm also not trying to be a care bear here - was rewatching it a few days ago and oddly this popped in my head. None of my good friends are Trekkie's at all so I figured I'd come here...
Fun comments too!
Indeed, it would be impossible for either of the ships to crash on Earth in anything shorter than, oh, three or four days or so, if all they had going for them was Earth's gravitic pull.
So it would be fun to speculate that Khan used the remaining propulsive power of his ship to head for Earth - but also briefly applied a tractor beam on Kirk's ship in order to ensure the death of his annoying nemesis, which is what that big jerk was all about (tractor beam, not Kirk).
Timo Saloniemi
There was nothing in the film to suggest khan made the ship head to earth before he issued the commands, the khaaaan scene was cut with a shot of the vengeance careering out of control, that's what the narrative seemed to me. Granted the lunar orbit side of things muddies the water somewhat but i just saw that as poor writing in that entire sequence, along with the enterprise getting knocked out of warp at the exact moment of entering lunar orbit, I mean when was sulu going to apply the brakes? Why where no other ships in earth orbit to assist?
Why would anybody assist Kirk, who is an evil terrorist in cahoots with another evil terrorist who intends nothing but evil to the innocents on Earth? And the valiant Marcus appeared quite capable of handling the terrorist all by himself, so when he told his underlings (that is, the entire Starfleet) to stand back, they no doubt found nothing to complain or wonder about.
That the warp chase would end at cislunar orbit would appear more Sulu's doing than Marcus'. After all, it better serves the aims of Kirk (warn Earth of Marcus) than Marcus' (stop Kirk and kill Khan so that it all looks legitimate). Quite possibly the Vengeance wasn't all that capable of forcing other ships out of warp after all, although once the prey did drop out of warp, there was little hope of getting those battered warp fields up again.
Timo Saloniemi
That the warp chase would end at cislunar orbit would appear more Sulu's doing than Marcus'. After all, it better serves the aims of Kirk (warn Earth of Marcus) than Marcus' (stop Kirk and kill Khan so that it all looks legitimate). Quite possibly the Vengeance wasn't all that capable of forcing other ships out of warp after all, although once the prey did drop out of warp, there was little hope of getting those battered warp fields up again.
Timo Saloniemi
Marcus was in a top secret section 31 battleship. Starfleet command didn't know what was going on. Regardless of who is perceived to be in the right or wrong, shouldn't defences have been scrambled? Or to put it another way if a ship off the coast of America was being attacked by an unknown warship do you think the navy would stand by and do nothing? I think not. Also how was it sulus doing the enterprise dropped out of warp when it did? The film clearly shows the vengeance knocking the ship out of warp with it's weapons. Sulu had no say in the matter.
I got the impression that Khan was deliberately trying to ram the Enterprise and had actually started following it under impulse power as it fell. Some sort of "From hell's heart I stab at thee!" moment. Kirk getting the warp core back online meant Enterprise was able to maneuver again while Vengeance was still basically tumbling debris trying to maneuver on thrusters, so of course he missed, but not by much.
When in all Star Trek have there ever been other ships in Earth orbit? Once, Storm Front Part 2 on Enterprise.
The beginning of said film when the enterprise leaves dock?
Yeah, but all of their captains and first officers had just gotten killed at the Daystrom Massacre so they probably weren't ready to sortie in anything less than an hour.
Your hunch is correct, sometimes humor just flies of people's heads...
I'm not sure I agree with your logic at all here. This feels like saying "yes, your honor, I killed him but he was going to go run the bulls later that day and would have likely died then. So really I was helping him avoid that gruesome death". I'm sure we agree that certainly wouldn't work. Crimes aren't about what could or should happen they are about what did happen. I absolutely agree McGaurdFace would have died either way but again that's irrelevant to the crime. I'm going to die someday soon - that knowledge doesn't mean you can kill me either.
I will however say it's at least an interesting point as again I'm really enjoying the utter stupidity of this thread (meaning the topic not the replies)
Marcus could simply tell them. "This is your supreme leader speaking. I'm dealing with a threat here. Stand by."
It's not as if Marcus would have to choose between going secret and going straight. His plan all along was to fake casus belli and then lead Starfleet to glorious victory as its rightful formal commander, so it was going to be a mixture of underhanded tricks and up-front professionalism. And he can adjust the mixture on the fly as he pleases. Especially as he has just assassinated his potential local naysayers with the help of Khan in that penthouse chopper massacre.
It's not really a top secret battleship, either, as evidenced by Marcus having a desktop model of it for all his colleagues to see. Just because Kirk is not in the need-to-know circles is no reason to start thinking of all of Marcus' affairs as under-the-counter.
Naah. We can't tell whether it's Marcus collapsing the warp field at the exact second, or Sulu deciding that enough is enough and the warp field must be dropped lest they all blow sky-high. And if we want to explain precision, we better go by the latter interpretation, because if Marcus wanted precision, he'd choose another time and place for it.
Timo Saloniemi
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