Star Wars: The Force Awakens Reviews (SPOILER-FREE THREAD)

[Venardhi]

Sure, it isn't a challenge, but unlike a GALACTIC EMPIRE, the idea that blowing up a goddamn planet-destroying-planet isn't a huge hit to the might of a relatively small Imperial-remnant nuisance (as far as the Republic was concerned) is pushing it. If the current incarnation of the new Republic isn't at total war against them over the destruction of the Senate and temporary capital by the time we pick up in The Last Jedi they'll be seriously stretching credibility.

 

[Reverend]

There's a few factors at play here. For starters we still don't have a very good idea as to the exact disposition of the First Order, not in terms of military might nor it's political support. Bloodline seemed to indicate that a not-insignificant block of Republic world seceded right as the First Order were on the rise.

Thanks to several decades of disarmament, the Republic is back down to the kind of levels it had pre-Clone Wars and this time I doubt there's a handy secret and fully equipped Clone army just lying around.
For all we know those ships we saw vaporised over Hosnian Prime made up the bulk of the New Republic's merger defence fleet, leaving them massively exposed and unable to effectively defend against incursions.

I can see a scenario where whole swaths of the galaxy (mostly those that weren't as badly exploited by the Empire) either surrendering or declaring neutrality, making this a fight between the die-hard loyalists on both sides, with half of those on the Republic side being more concerned with protecting their own systems than helping defend their neighbours.

 

[Ithekro]

Plus we saw the First Order had at least several new Star Destroyers near Starkiller Base when it fired. If the Republic Fleet was that badly mauled by Starkiller Base, those star destroyers will be more than enough against the Resistance that has basically X-wings.

If the Republic basically goes into full Civil War again, it is not ready, and the First Order and its supporters likely are ready even without Starkiller Base, since the main thing keeping the ex-Imperial Worlds in check was the Republic Fleet.

 

[Set Harth]

If the current incarnation of the new Republic isn't at total war against them over the destruction of the Senate and temporary capital by the time we pick up in The Last Jedi they'll be seriously stretching credibility.

Fake news! Just sad.

 

[LJones41]

Has anyone ever wonder how Lucasfilm and Disney will handle the theme of civil war in this trilogy? In the first trilogy, civil war was handled in a straightforward manner in which the rebels were the good guys and those they were fighting against were the bad guys. In the second trilogy, a civil war (namely the Clone Wars) was used as a tool by the bad guy to manipulate others and triumph over the good guys. So, how will Lucasfilm and Disney handle the theme of civil in this third trilogy? So far, it looks as if they are utilizing the same narrative tool that Lucas had used for the first trilogy. Or will they come up with something new? Will Rian Johnson introduce something new for Episode Eight?

 

[Reverend]

I'm not sure one could classify it as a civil war since it seems the First Order is largely an outside force, or at least has been for decades. As such it has more of a feel of a war of conquest. The obvious model to draw from being the rapid expansion of the Third Reich prior to and during WWII. Indeed of one were to take that analogy literally then the secession of the centrist worlds is at least partly akin to the annexation of Austria. Presumably "Space Poland" and "Space France" are next, followed by "Space Dunkirk".

That's assuming we see much if anything of the larger war. Typically in the Star Wars movies the actual wars are the backdrop, not the subject.

 

[LJones41]

It's pretty obvious that . . . whatever is the name of the group that Leia is leading . . . is rebelling against the First Order. Isn't the First Order supposed to be some political body that is not part of the New Republic?

 

[fireproof78]

I'm not sure one could classify it as a civil war since it seems the First Order is largely an outside force, or at least has been for decades. As such it has more of a feel of a war of conquest. The obvious model to draw from being the rapid expansion of the Third Reich prior to and during WWII. Indeed of one were to take that analogy literally then the secession of the centrist worlds is at least partly akin to the annexation of Austria. Presumably "Space Poland" and "Space France" are next, followed by "Space Dunkirk".

That's assuming we see much if anything of the larger war. Typically in the Star Wars movies the actual wars are the backdrop, not the subject.

The Third Reich I believe is exactly what the production team drew upon.

It's pretty obvious that . . . whatever is the name of the group that Leia is leading . . . is rebelling against the First Order. Isn't the First Order supposed to be some political body that is not part of the New Republic?

The Resistance is funded by the Republic, but it is clandestine support since the New Republic doesn't want to risk open war with the First Order.

The First Order is a clear Imperial remnant force coalesced around Supreme Leader Snoke rather than the Sith.

 

[JD]

Easy. Opening shot: Fleet of brand new Super Star Destroyers.
Job done.

If the recent rumors about Finn's story in The Last Jedi are accurate, this seems pretty likely.

It's pretty obvious that . . . whatever is the name of the group that Leia is leading . . . is rebelling against the First Order. Isn't the First Order supposed to be some political body that is not part of the New Republic?

I don't know if I'd say they're rebelling since the First Order aren't actually in charge. We learned in the backstory revealed in things like The Visual Diction was that the FO was a fairly small group out in the outskirts that the majority of the New Republic wasn't all that concerned with. Leia saw that they were becoming more of a threat and started the Resistance as a way to try to stop them before they got any more power. That was why it was such a shock when they fired Starkiller, no one thought they had that kind of power. If anything the new trilogy started with the power dynamics of the OT reversed, with the bad guys now a smaller group who were working against the big govenment, and who proved they are a threat by destroying a big important part of that government. I honestly never noticed that until I wrote this post.

 

[Reverend]

The Third Reich I believe is exactly what the production team drew upon.

Well that's more an inheritance from the OT than anything they came up with on their own. What the First Order actually reminds me of more than anything is an old pulp alt-history/conspiracy theory trope about a cadre of fanatical elite Nazi soldiers, officers, scientists & engineers fleeing to some secret base in Antarctica to secretly rebuild with all kinds of crazy super-weapons.

The Resistance is funded by the Republic, but it is clandestine support since the New Republic doesn't want to risk open war with the First Order.

I think it's more accurate to say it was funded & equipped by certain sympathetic factions within the Republic. Officially or otherwise I'm pretty sure the Chancellor and the majority of the Senate don't support Leia, officially or otherwise (that may soon change of course now most of the Senate are dead.)

The First Order is a clear Imperial remnant force coalesced around Supreme Leader Snoke rather than the Sith.

We know that the First Order was born out of the last survivors of the Imperial fleet that refused to surrender and instead rallied at Jakku before fleeing into the unknown regions to carve out a new Empire among the thousands of uncharted worlds there. Much later it seems as though the infiltrated Republic space and turned many worlds to their side (the centrist faction) who seceded from the Republic about 5 years prior to TFA, which seems roughly when the First Order went public.

Snoke's role is still very mysterious since we have no clear idea who he is or what he's about (no shortage of theories though.) All we know is that he's a force user, is old enough to have seen the rise and fall of Palpatine's Empire and somehow made himself Supreme Leader of the First Order. Depending on how one interprets what Leia said in TFA he may have been known to her prior the above described events. so it's possible (though seemingly unlikely) he had nothing to do with the First Order until relatively recently.

 

[fireproof78]

If the recent rumors about Finn's story in The Last Jedi are accurate, this seems pretty likely.

I don't know if I'd say they're rebelling since the First Order aren't actually in charge. We learned in the backstory revealed in things like The Visual Diction was that the FO was a fairly small group out in the outskirts that the majority of the New Republic wasn't all that concerned with. Leia saw that they were becoming more of a threat and started the Resistance as a way to try to stop them before they got any more power. That was why it was such a shock when they fired Starkiller, no one thought they had that kind of power. If anything the new trilogy started with the power dynamics of the OT reversed, with the bad guys now a smaller group who were working against the big govenment, and who proved they are a threat by destroying a big important part of that government. I honestly never noticed that until I wrote this post.

This is quite true. I think Sam Witwer on the Rebel Force Radio podcast mentioned that part of Poe's reaction to the Star Destroyer is just how large it is, and how large their military might is. Nobody on the Resistance side knew just how big of a threat they were, until that moment.

Well that's more an inheritance from the OT than anything they came up with on their own. What the First Order actually reminds me of more than anything is an old pulp alt-history/conspiracy theory trope about a cadre of fanatical elite Nazi soldiers, officers, scientists & engineers fleeing to some secret base in Antarctica to secretly rebuild with all kinds of crazy super-weapons.

I always thought it was Brazil

I think it's more accurate to say it was funded & equipped by certain sympathetic factions within the Republic. Officially or otherwise I'm pretty sure the Chancellor and the majority of the Senate don't support Leia, officially or otherwise (that may soon change of course now most of the Senate are dead.)

Fair point, as I think many of the books and other materials describe Senate's reaction to Leia as "calling her hawkish." So, her support of the Resistance is definitely not popular, despite Hux's eye bulging speech.

We know that the First Order was born out of the last survivors of the Imperial fleet that refused to surrender and instead rallied at Jakku before fleeing into the unknown regions to carve out a new Empire among the thousands of uncharted worlds there. Much later it seems as though the infiltrated Republic space and turned many worlds to their side (the centrist faction) who seceded from the Republic about 5 years prior to TFA, which seems roughly when the First Order went public.

Snoke's role is still very mysterious since we have no clear idea who he is or what he's about (no shortage of theories though.) All we know is that he's a force user, is old enough to have seen the rise and fall of Palpatine's Empire and somehow made himself Supreme Leader of the First Order. Depending on how one interprets what Leia said in TFA he may have been known to her prior the above described events. so it's possible (though seemingly unlikely) he had nothing to do with the First Order until relatively recently.

I will be curious to see more about Snoke, and his role in the First Order.

 

[LJones41]

So, does this mean that the Resistance will become the second New Republic?

 

[JD]

Well, the New Republic is still around, all that was destroyed was the current capital. They change capitals every few years, so there are probably lots of other places that can serve as a capital. The loss of the leadership would be a huge blow, but I doubt it would be enough to completely wipe out the whole NR. I don't think it's quite as big as the original Republic, but it's definitely a lot more than just that one planet or star system.

 

[Ithekro]

Means that the systems that were not happy with the Republic will break away. Some might join the First Order. Some other remains of the old Empire could still exist that were following the treaty. The main Republic Fleet was destroyed, leaving the First Order with an advantage in capital ships, at least in the short term.

 

[fireproof78]

So, does this mean that the Resistance will become the second New Republic?

No, not at all. It wasn't clear in the film but the New Republic capital rotates from world to world. How that will play in to the sequel is unknown. The Visual Guide provided a little more insight in to the political nature of the Resistance, as well as Hosnian Prime:

 

[LJones41]

Exactly what is the First Order and the Resistance about? Does someone know?

 

[Reverend]

It's pretty simple, the First Order wants to conquer the galaxy and the Resistance is about that not happening.

 

[Tuskin38]

Exactly what is the First Order and the Resistance about? Does someone know?

The Resistance is described in the post above yours.

The First Order was made from remnants of the Empire that fled into the Unknown Regions. They're just the Empire in exile. With changes.

 

[LJones41]

It's pretty simple, the First Order wants to conquer the galaxy and the Resistance is about that not happening.

Can you be a little more detailed than that? I could have sworn that the current "Resistance" were systems in rebellion against the First Order, who had been formed from a group of systems that were not a part of the New Republic. Or is it something different?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

No, not at all. It wasn't clear in the film but the New Republic capital rotates from world to world. How that will play in to the sequel is unknown. The Visual Guide provided a little more insight in to the political nature of the Resistance, as well as Hosnian Prime:

I would have enjoyed TFA at least a little bit better, if this information, which I frankly consider to be essential to the story, had found its way into the actual film. There was plenty of space for it to get in there.