Except we already got Ghost Rider, Daredevil and Punisher all in Marvel/Disney productions. You're argument doesn't really work when all three of your examples have already been used.
Batman with Ben Affleck-- Rumors, pic, etc;
- Thread starter Turtletrekker
- Start date
On the other side of things, I imagine TPTB want to keep their gravy train rolling. If you look at the studios producing CBM and their grosses, you see WB is in a good position financially.
It took DC 3 films (both Nolan and DCEU) to gross over $2 billion WW.
It took Sony 3 films with Spider-Man to gross over $2 billion WW.
It took Marvel 5 films to gross over $2 billion WW.
It took Fox 6 films with the X-Men to gross over $2 billion WW.
These companies are basically a business, and looking at the DC numbers, I imagine TPTB are trying their best to continue the trend and keep the audience happy. After Avengers 1, the MCU became unstoppable. Sony dropped out after TASM 2 and cancelled their planned Spidey shared universe. Quantity wise, the XCU has nearly as many films as the MCU, but financially, people just don't seem to care about the X-Men. Fox's biggest hits were DOFP and Deadpool. The latter being a film nobody at Fox wanted to make.
While Batman and the Flash seem to be having troubled pre-production, WW, JL and Aquaman are all on schedule. Yeah, Aquaman is the one with the least problems and is about to begin shooting soon. The rub with the Flash movie seems to be making it different from the popular TV show. With Batman, I surmise it's a juggling act between the suits at WB, Affleck (who is still writing and producing) and the directors their looking at. Plus, we have Gotham City Sirens and Suicide Squad 2 coming as well.
To talk about Marvel for a moment, they also have their share of executive meddling and creative talent walking away from their projects.
Jon Favreau and Mickey Rourke's bad experience after Iron Man 2.
The Avengers getting a page 1 rewrite by Whedon, because the original script was terrible.
Ant-Man being in development hell for years and Edgar Wright finally walking away.
Thor The Dark World had Patty Jenkins (the current director of WW) walk away 2 weeks before shooting was to start. Natalie Portman was dissatisfied with how she was treated and declined to return to any future Marvel projects. The replacement director Alan Taylor also made comments that weren't positive about his experience.
Joss Whedon's departure after Age of Ultron and his comments about working with Marvel. Which at the time were inflammatory. He's since cooled about his experience.
We had the the changing hats for the Black Panther director, before we finally settled on one.
Captain Marvel was announced back in 2014, was pushed back twice and reportedly, there is still no script for the movie. Marvel also wants a female director to helm it, like DC did for WW.
So, not all that glitters is gold. Try not to let your passions get the best of you in these talks. I imagine we constantly hear about DC/WB's issues on the cycle/recycle of online news outlets because DC is the biggest competitor for Marvel, and people want to see if they sink or swim. Which is interesting to me, because the X-Men IP has it worse than DC, but nobody cares about Fox's films to the same degree.
It took DC 3 films (both Nolan and DCEU) to gross over $2 billion WW.
It took Sony 3 films with Spider-Man to gross over $2 billion WW.
It took Marvel 5 films to gross over $2 billion WW.
It took Fox 6 films with the X-Men to gross over $2 billion WW.
These companies are basically a business, and looking at the DC numbers, I imagine TPTB are trying their best to continue the trend and keep the audience happy. After Avengers 1, the MCU became unstoppable. Sony dropped out after TASM 2 and cancelled their planned Spidey shared universe. Quantity wise, the XCU has nearly as many films as the MCU, but financially, people just don't seem to care about the X-Men. Fox's biggest hits were DOFP and Deadpool. The latter being a film nobody at Fox wanted to make.
While Batman and the Flash seem to be having troubled pre-production, WW, JL and Aquaman are all on schedule. Yeah, Aquaman is the one with the least problems and is about to begin shooting soon. The rub with the Flash movie seems to be making it different from the popular TV show. With Batman, I surmise it's a juggling act between the suits at WB, Affleck (who is still writing and producing) and the directors their looking at. Plus, we have Gotham City Sirens and Suicide Squad 2 coming as well.
To talk about Marvel for a moment, they also have their share of executive meddling and creative talent walking away from their projects.
Jon Favreau and Mickey Rourke's bad experience after Iron Man 2.
The Avengers getting a page 1 rewrite by Whedon, because the original script was terrible.
Ant-Man being in development hell for years and Edgar Wright finally walking away.
Thor The Dark World had Patty Jenkins (the current director of WW) walk away 2 weeks before shooting was to start. Natalie Portman was dissatisfied with how she was treated and declined to return to any future Marvel projects. The replacement director Alan Taylor also made comments that weren't positive about his experience.
Joss Whedon's departure after Age of Ultron and his comments about working with Marvel. Which at the time were inflammatory. He's since cooled about his experience.
We had the the changing hats for the Black Panther director, before we finally settled on one.
Captain Marvel was announced back in 2014, was pushed back twice and reportedly, there is still no script for the movie. Marvel also wants a female director to helm it, like DC did for WW.
So, not all that glitters is gold. Try not to let your passions get the best of you in these talks. I imagine we constantly hear about DC/WB's issues on the cycle/recycle of online news outlets because DC is the biggest competitor for Marvel, and people want to see if they sink or swim. Which is interesting to me, because the X-Men IP has it worse than DC, but nobody cares about Fox's films to the same degree.
Last edited:
I forgot about Patty Jenkins and Thor 2. I wonder what was different with DC that she stuck around for Wonder Woman?
I kind of laugh with Marvel, because they almost seem to be a love/hate kind of thing for directors. Some people, like Edgar Wright and Jenkins, don't appear to be able to work with them, but then we get people like the Russos and James Gunn who seem to have no problems with them.
From the bits and pieces I've picked up over the years, Marvel/Kevin Feige seems to have very clear ideas about what they want, and if you play ball and just give them that, they're great, but if you are determined to do your own thing then they're a nightmare.
I kind of laugh with Marvel, because they almost seem to be a love/hate kind of thing for directors. Some people, like Edgar Wright and Jenkins, don't appear to be able to work with them, but then we get people like the Russos and James Gunn who seem to have no problems with them.
From the bits and pieces I've picked up over the years, Marvel/Kevin Feige seems to have very clear ideas about what they want, and if you play ball and just give them that, they're great, but if you are determined to do your own thing then they're a nightmare.
I'm personally fine with the way the MCU does things. yeah, they sometimes act like jerks (like forcing Whedon to put the stupid "vision Jacuzzi" into Avengers 2) but in general I prefer the people in charge of the MCU run the movies, not the directors. The MCU movies aren't as samey as some people suggest, and I personally think they're mostly high quality. Basically, I'd rather a movie feel like it fits in the MCU then let a director go wild. The movies should be good, solid MCU movies first, above being an "Edgar Wright" movie or a "Joss Whedon" movie.
Besides, like was pointed out above, people like the Russos and James Gunn have no problem working in the MCU and putting their marks on the movies. I think its just that some director's don't fit the style very well, which makes sense. I find the MCU way far superior to the DCEU way, although maybe the DCEU could do a more director driven approach and stillput out equally as good movies if Zach Snyder wasn't the director leading the charge. I think both ways can work, and even though I favor the director being second to the franchise the DCEU could be as good as the MCU with a different style, it just comes down to who they hired.
I'm hoping that Wonder Woman shows the DCEU can put out good stuff in a different style then Marvel, it all depends on if it actually is something different the the other DCEU stuff, or if its just a Snyder-ish film with a different director.
Besides, like was pointed out above, people like the Russos and James Gunn have no problem working in the MCU and putting their marks on the movies. I think its just that some director's don't fit the style very well, which makes sense. I find the MCU way far superior to the DCEU way, although maybe the DCEU could do a more director driven approach and stillput out equally as good movies if Zach Snyder wasn't the director leading the charge. I think both ways can work, and even though I favor the director being second to the franchise the DCEU could be as good as the MCU with a different style, it just comes down to who they hired.
I'm hoping that Wonder Woman shows the DCEU can put out good stuff in a different style then Marvel, it all depends on if it actually is something different the the other DCEU stuff, or if its just a Snyder-ish film with a different director.
I think where a lot of people get tripped up is that, in a lot of ways, the MCU is very much like a TV series, with Kevin Feige serving as the showrunner. In TV, the showrunner (usually) has final say on the creative direction, and the directors perform their tasks according to his or her vision. This isn't really something we've seen in cinema very often (if ever), so not many people are used to it, or are fond of it. But it's a model that's clearly served them well.
Last edited:
Your argument literally was: TDK is considered the best comic book and superhero movie ever made "because all the previous 5 Batman movies sucked"! You literally said that seriously!!!
What part of M-O-V-I-E troubles you?
Exactly this. Actors Mickey Rourke and Natalie Portman don't want to work with Marvel again. Directors Edgar Wright and Patty Jenkins left their respected movies. And that's half of them!
Actor and writer of The Incredible Hulk Edward Norton was set to reprise the role of Banner in all the other MCU installments but never returned and was replaced with Mark Ruffalo.
Iron Man was in development hell for almost 2 decades and changed dozens of writers and directors.
Terrence Howard left Iron Man 2 or was fired amid accusations and was replaced by Don Cheadle.
Red Skull actor Hugo Weaving was dissatisfied with Marvel, was very vocal about it and didn't return for any other installment.
The Incredible Hulk only grossed $263 million in worldwide box office. Captain America: The First Avenger only grossed $370 million in worldwide box office.
So where are all the "MCU Is Dead" articles? Where are all the Marvel doom and gloom threads and posts? Nowhere to be found. I wonder if it has something to do with Disney's 4 Billion dollar investment I mentioned above.
The Netflix shows are essentially 13-hour movies, and honestly the characters are better served for it. Charlie Cox has already had more screen time as Matt Murdock than Robert Downey Jr has had as Tony Stark.
Mickey Rourke's character is dead, and Natalie Portman would happily work with Marvel again.
Why would people be saying that "the MCU is dead" when characters that nobody had even heard of 10 years ago such as Iron Man, The Guardians of the Galaxy and Ant-Man bring in such amazing numbers? The truth is that the MCU is at it's peak right now, while the DCEU is, regretfully, floundering.
ETA-- And, again, you're the one who keeps bringing up Marvel.
Rourke is a Diva who is infamously hard to please, and Portman never cared about the movies to begin with. Edgar Wrights' ideas were pretty messed up, Patty Jenkins...we'll see if she's even a decent CBM Director come Wonder Woman.
Norton is also a Diva known for trying to take over any movie he's in.
And?
Good.
Eh, the MCU isn't about its' villains. Skull can be recast.
Phase 1 movies, back when people were still more ashamed of CBMs that weren't "grounded".
No, they just persevered.
The Netflix shows are Netflix shows. PERIOD. I was discussing movies and clearly stated so.
That's totally irrelevant to his experience as an actor and besides the point altogether.
That's why she stars in Thor: Ragnarok. Oh, wait, she doesn't!
It's pretty obvious that I'm not talking about now. I was talking about when the aforementioned news stories broke. There is a definite double standard in the media even if you refuse to acknowledge it.
Well, excuse me for answering back to you. Now if you're finally finished let's get back to the "Batman with Ben Affleck-- Rumors, pic, etc" without all the Nolan bashing.
He knows proper math?
The point is mediun is irrelevant to the story that wants to be told. TV these days are the writer's and actor's medium anyways, you're allowed to have both you know. Why be so limiting?
The movie takes place on an alien gladiator planet. She obviously doesn't fit the story. In the same way supporting character Dr. Selvig probably won't be in it, but people aren't freaking out about that.
Laurence Fishburne's Perry White doesn't fit the Justice League story and won't be in it but people freaked out about that. Another example of the Disney/Marvel v WB/DC double standard I'm talking about.
People are? I dunno, I can't speak to that but I don't get that either, then.
People was a poor choice of words from me. Rumors sites and internet trolls is a more accurate description.
Good, I'm kind of getting sick of that guy.
Similar threads
