Dominion's Price of Peace Worth It?

[marsh8472]

In episode "the Search Part 2" the crew were put in a simulation by the Dominion where they ran an experiment to see how much they were willing to give up for peace. In the end the crew found the price too high and collapsed the wormhole.

The price of the war on the alpha quadrant was heavy causalities to the Federation, Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, and Breen. Now that we see the price of the war, compared to the price of peace, would it have been worth it to settle for something similar to the simulation in "The Search Part 2"?

SISKO: I want to know what the hell is going on.
NECHAYEV: Commander, I don't appreciate your barging in here.
SISKO: I want to know why my Science Officer's been transferred without my consent. I want to know why my Chief of Operations is lying in the Infirmary while the Jem'Hadar who beat him is free to walk the station, and I want to know why the Federation is willing to risk a war with the Romulans to form an alliance with a group of people that we hardly know and barely trust.
NECHAYEV: Are you finished?
SISKO: I haven't even begun.
BORATH: Admiral, I think you should tell Commander Sisko what he wants to know.
NECHAYEV: All right. I suppose he deserves to be the first to hear the news.
SISKO: What news?
NECHAYEV: The Federation is pulling out of this sector. All Starfleet personnel currently stationed on DS Nine will be reassigned to other posts. Yourself included.
SISKO: What about Bajor?
NECHAYEV: Our plans for Bajor are on hold for the time being. From now on Bajor will be the Dominion's responsibility. They'll be running this station.
SISKO: And you're telling me the Bajorans have agreed to this?
BORATH: We're confident they'll have no objections.
SISKO: And if they do object, what then? You send in the Jem'Hadar?
BORATH: The Jem'Hadar are used only against our enemies. Bajor will be protected, Commander. We'll see to it.
SISKO: What about the wormhole? Will they get to protect that too?
NECHAYEV: It's the price of peace, Benjamin.
SISKO: Well, if you ask me, the price is too damned high. What is the Federation supposed to get out of all this?
BORATH: Our friendship. Isn't that enough?
NECHAYEV: And you, Benjamin, get a promotion. Captain Sisko. It's an important step toward that Admiralcy you've always wanted.
SISKO: I want a chance to speak to the Federation negotiating team before this treaty is signed.
NECHAYEV: It's too late for that, Ben. The treaty was signed late this afternoon.
BORATH: It's the beginning of a new era, Commander, and you helped make it possible. Congratulations.

 

[Jono]

It's an absolutely terrible deal. As Sisko said they know little about the Dominion to cede so much. Not to mention the Federation has no right to o what Nechayev and Borath had agreed to. Nor would it have prevented war. It simply would have just provided a different path to it.

 

[marsh8472]

What they were fighting over was having to give DS9, bajor, and the wormhole to the dominion. Plus a possible conflict between Romulans and this alliance which would be pretty tame compared to the Dominion war. It seemed like a big sacrifice back then but if could prevent the 4 years of war they got it might not be so bad. We see in the alternate timeline in episode "the visitor" that the dominion don't have to rush to war against the federation.​

From "House of Quark"
QUARK: I should've gone into insurance. Better hours, more money, less scruples. It's all Sisko's fault.
ROM: Sisko?
QUARK: That's right. If he'd handled things better with the Dominion, none of this would've happened. They want a foothold in the Alpha Quadrant? Cut a deal, make a few arrangements, give them a little something for their trouble.
ROM: Brother
QUARK: But no, he had to play it tough, so now everyone's afraid of the Dominion.
ROM: Yes, but brother
QUARK: And that means fewer people on the station, which means fewer people at Quark's, which means I am out of business

 

[Tenacity]

Not to mention the Federation has no right to o what Nechayev and Borath had agreed to.

The Federation certainly has the "right" to move Starfleet personnel and assets around.

 

[marsh8472]

Really the dominion came through the wormhole because the cardassians gave them their territory to establish themselves. The cardassians probably wouldn't have done that if they weren't so crippled from their war with the Klingons. The klingons started the war with the cardassians because of the dominion.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Peaceful totalitarianism is not real peace.

 

[Jono]

The Federation certainly has the "right" to move Starfleet personnel and assets around.

Sure they do. They can't hand over Bajor property and territory to a foreign power without the Bajoran's permission.

 

[marsh8472]

Sure they do. They can't hand over Bajor property and territory to a foreign power without the Bajoran's permission.

But they gave up Bajor, DS9, and the wormhole during the war anyway.

 

[Jono]

But they gave up Bajor, DS9, and the wormhole during the war anyway.

I'm not sure what your point is.

 

[marsh8472]

I'm not sure what your point is.

The price there was the same whether they had peace or war

 

[USS KG5]

Its a bit of a straw man argument, because you are assuming that such an offer would be genuine and made in good faith, which we do know from the show it wouldnt be. The founders are on record as believing that they are unsafe while solids are not under their control, they would never make such an offer in good faith.

It strains credibility anyhow, which is why they used Admiral "bitch" Nechayev in the episode, as she frankly seems a bit dodgy anyway.

 

[Jono]

The price there was the same whether they had peace or war

Not really. One was paid to give the AQ a chance to repel Dominion domination. The other would have paved the way.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

But they gave up Bajor, DS9, and the wormhole during the war anyway.

Technically, the Bajorans asked the Federation to leave, which they did after Kira protested and the wormhole had been mined.

 

[marsh8472]

Technically, the Bajorans asked the Federation to leave, which they did after Kira protested and the wormhole had been mined.

Yea technically. Sisko asked them to do that though.

 

[marsh8472]

Its a bit of a straw man argument, because you are assuming that such an offer would be genuine and made in good faith, which we do know from the show it wouldnt be. The founders are on record as believing that they are unsafe while solids are not under their control, they would never make such an offer in good faith.

It strains credibility anyhow, which is why they used Admiral "bitch" Nechayev in the episode, as she frankly seems a bit dodgy anyway.

The dominion said they felt threatened by the federation coming to the gamma quadrant. Also we see alternate timelines where the dominion leave the federation alone. The federation did win the war by a lot luck because of the prophets, sisko tricking the romulans into the war, and the cardassians turning on the dominion. Why gamble so much and lose so much?

 

[Timo]

At that point, ceding stuff to the Dominion wouldn't have appeared particularly threatening. So what if they are let to have Bajor and the wormhole for a brief while? Let them play with those and see if they can behave. If they don't, it's a trivial matter to destroy the wormhole and then get rid of the stranded Dominoes as the Alphans see fit.

That would certainly be more practicable than trying to find out more about the Dominion on their own turf, half a galaxy away. On Bajor, these foreigners can be studied at their disadvantage.

This only ever got complicated when the wormhole became photon torpedo proof in "By Inferno's Light"...

What really was at stake there was ceding the Gamma end. But that was lost already: if the Alphans could destroy the wormhole from their side, the Dominion could do it from theirs, now that they clearly had a presence there.

So, a splendid deal, provided nobody assumed either side would actually respect the deal in any fashion.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[USS KG5]

Also we see alternate timelines where the dominion leave the federation alone.

The visitor never really specifies what happens with the dominion, a war isn't mentioned but it did only last two years so maybe it happened but didn't make james potted history?

Why gamble so much and lose so much?

But they didn't did they? It wasn't a binary choice?

 

[Voth commando1]

It seems like a rather bad deal but also remember Nechayev and Borath are portrayed in negative terms here and the audience is supposed to agree with Sisko.

The dominion would have gained a foothold in the alpha quadrant and I think had the treaty stood they would never have been dislodged barring prophet/q/organian intervention or some massive change in the status quo like the Borg conquering the alpha quadrant of the federation assimilating the other powers and hence (plausibly) being able to challenge the dominion conventionally.

The dominion as we all know isn't out to kill everything that isn't it like species 8472 and would probably be happy vassalizing the alpha quadrant with zero casualties and I think had different leadership been in place and the dominion's infiltration plans been more successful they could say "we don't want a costly war that will kill billions how bout you join us, pay your tribute/taxes and don't cause trouble and life will go on."

Not that any alpha/beta powers would have accepted that least of all the Feds/Klingons/Romulans. The Ferengi might have and the tholians/gorn/tzenkethi probably would have given a thumb's up if that meant they could be assured say no interference. The cardassians were desperate with the Maquis gaining strength and the Klingons having humiliated them and Dukat I think made a deal he genuinely believed was in Cardassia's interest and his own(at the time). Had someone like Garak or Ghemor been in charge I think they would have sided with the federation/Klingon/Romulan fleet in By Inferno's Light. Since there more Cardassian nationalists at heart.

DS9 for all its talk of "realism" and political complexity was really limited by an obvious WW2 paradigm and diplomatic concessions in the story would be automatically associated with Chamberlainian appeasement in the mind of the audience.

 

[Timo]

It seems like a rather bad deal but also remember Nechayev and Borath are portrayed in negative terms here and the audience is supposed to agree with Sisko.

And why is that? Because it's a simulation devised by the Dominion. They already know what diplomacy might or might not achieve, and at any rate they aren't getting any further data on that from Sisko and the Defiants, because none of them are diplomats.

What the simulation is devised to reveal is what the Alphans will do when pushed too far. And it appears to give good, solid and truthful data on the issue.

As a bonus, the test subjects are then let go. So now the Dominion not only knows what they might have done, it also knows they know, creating stability and false confidence - an excellent basis on which to plan the upcoming offensive. The Founders could just as easily have elimitated Sisko's posse and never told Odo. Or told Odo and expected (and gotten!) the same results they got in the episode.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I disagree that the Dominion appeared nonthreatening at the time. They knew that the Dominion had destroyed their colonies on the other side without warning or giving the colonists an opportunity to leave peacefully. They knew everybody they'd met in the GQ was terrified of the Gem'Hadar.

They didn't specifically know that they intended to impose a dictatorship over the entire quadrant, but even the TNG era Federation isn't naive enough to think that an incredibly powerful foreign power that insists on unmitigated control over the strategic foothold to the entire quadrant and tolerance of the constant presence of a genetically controlled foreign army who can beat them up on the slightest provocation without consequences isn't an intolerable risk.

The point of the simulation was to find out if the Federation was dumb enough to let them do to them what they did to Cardassia. Come in waving the banner as allies, then before they realize it they have complete military dominance over their entire society.