Was Chakotay/Seven really that bad?

[Sophie74656]

I understand that a lot of people did not like this pairing, and I think the main reason is that many people were hoping for a Janeway/Chakotay relationship. But honestly, the more I think about it the more I think C/7 wasn't completely horrible.

Janeway made it very clear that she would not be in a relationship with anyone under her command, we even saw this in Workforce at the end. So having been rejected Chakotay did the healthy thing and moved on from her to another relationship. In this regard it makes sense for it to be Seven because asside from Janeway and B'Elanna, she was the only other woman he spent time with.

Yes the relationship somewhat came out of nowhere, but they spent a lot of time together shortly before that on that planet so perhaps some feelings began to develop there. Also in Endgame we saw them after their first (or was it second) date, so it's not like they were serious.

Another main issue is chemistry between the actors, which in my opnion there was zero. But I blame that mostly on Robert Beltran. It was a poor match in terms of the actors, but not the characters.

Any other thoughts?

 

[F. King Daniel]

Yes, it was that bad.


That is all.

 

[Prax]

I was JUST about to reply to you in the other thread, and was thinking "I should start a thread about this." Then I thought "nahh, I'll probably get yelled at and told that there's already threads on this subject."

So, I don't mind the pairing. It actually makes a lot of sense for the characters.

Here's why:
-Firstly, as far as the characters know, they will be on Voyager for the rest of their lives.

-Chakotay is the only guy on the ship(besides Janeway) who can't "date" anyone because of his rank.

-He's already had problems with "dating" crewmembers (Seska). And he really had a tough time with the fallout of her betrayal.

-We know he loved Janeway, and She too, cared for him. In "Resolutions", they were about to have a real relationship. When they are rescued, cured, and back on board, they immediately go back to a professional relationship. They both know and accept that under the circumstances, it would be impossible, irresponsible, etc. In "The Q and the Grey", we see that Chakotay has some difficulties with his feelings for Janeway, and Janeway possibly does also.

-The only way Chakotay and Janeway could have a romance, would be if it was a secret one. And we all know how long those types of secrets last.

-Seven has been "exploring her humanity" throughout season 7. She's cooking, socializing, dancing, singing, playing piano, etc. We see that she's been involved in a romantic relationship with a holodeck Chakotay. She tells the Doctor that she chose him as the ideal mate. She's embarrassed to talk about it, but from the story, it's clear she's falling in love with Chakotay. Fantasy or not.

-At some point she worked up the nerve to approach the real Chakotay. He's the type of guy that needs a woman in his life. I have no doubts he would have gotten involved in a relationship with her.


I have a great solution to make this storyline all fit together much better. It's a tiny detail. In the episode "Natural Law", they could have had a moment where Seven reaches out and hold his hand. It could've been while they were walking, or perhaps instead of going off on her own at night, she could have sat down next to him. Then maybe flash forward to later that evening, the fire dying down, And Chakotay and Seven sleeping, either holding hands, snuggling.

 

[Sophie74656]

I completely agree. One tiny scene in Natural Law would have made a huge difference

 

[A Chimpanzee & 2 Trainees]

I don't think it's wrong for Chak to date, but I keep thinking that Seven on an emotional maturity level is just a teenager. While she's not technically an officer, she's still a subordinate, and from both perspectives I think he was taking advantage of her.

Her first relationship should have been with the Doctor. I would think she would find appealing in him precisely what troubled Cpt. Janeway about Michael Sullivan... she CAN reprogram him and make him PERFECT!

Of course that would be a 1-episode disaster of a relationship for both of them, and the whole doctor/patient relationship thing makes it even worse. I do think it would be logical from her perspective and he would be foolish enough to do it because he has a rather large ego, overestimates his ability to handle non-medical situations, and fails to anticipate the pitfalls of pursuing his desires.

Of all the crew not otherwise involved, if she had to be paired romantically (which I dispute), I like her with Kim the best. If they'd slowly built it up, I think it would have been a nice journey for them both - she ends up with her first stable relationship, and he goes from being so nervous that he can barely be around her to exercising some of that maturity he should have gained over the course of the series and finally started trying to assert in Nightingale.

 

[Tracy Trek]

^And maybe it would have given Harry's character something to do than be the show's whipping boy. You know, the one which something bad always happens to, the one who never gets the girl.

I think C/7 just seemed so out of left field. But I guess they had been building up to it with her having her holodeck Chakotay.

 

[Lynx]

Yes because there were no chemistry between them and nothing which could have lead up to it what I know. It just came out of nowhere and it insulted and annoyed a large group of fans.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Time travel effects baby conception randomly.

The wrong sperm gets to the head of the pack because of subtle changes in nearby reality.

Kathryn might have picked that moment to arrive because it's the first second that she could arrive in history without changing the identity of Chakotay and Seven's baby.

Seven was knocked up in the finale?

Wouldn't her body automatically assimilate any embro trying to make a home inside Seven?

 

[Sophie74656]

Yes because there were no chemistry between them and nothing which could have lead up to it what I know. It just came out of nowhere and it insulted and annoyed a large group of fans.

I agree with the lack of chemistry but we did see some things leading up to the relarionship. Seven was already developing feelings for him from her holodeck program. And we only saw them after one date.

 

[Sophie74656]

Time travel effects baby conception randomly.

The wrong sperm gets to the head of the pack because of subtle changes in nearby reality.

Kathryn might have picked that moment to arrive because it's the first second that she could arrive in history without changing the identity of Chakotay and Seven's baby.

Seven was knocked up in the finale?

Wouldn't her body automatically assimilate any embro trying to make a home inside Seven?

Come on.

She was not pregnant. They had one date

 

[Guy Gardener]

They had known each other for 3 years.

A date is an interview, to figure out why you shouldn't #### someone.

When you transform a friend into a lover, you get to skip a couple steps between handshake and coitus.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

The problem with C/7 is the way it came out of left field. They didn't earn it, they didn't show us how this attraction came about, or how given our knowledge of their personalities they'd get along. It felt like they wanted to match 7 up with someone and decided by throwing darts at a board.

On episode 1, Paris/Torres made as little sense as C/7, but they took the time to earn it and made it make sense. If they had waited until the last few episodes then suddenly said "Oh umm...yeah, let's say Paris ends up with Torres, whatevvs", it would have been just as bad.

 

[Prax]

Time travel effects baby conception randomly.

The wrong sperm gets to the head of the pack because of subtle changes in nearby reality.

Kathryn might have picked that moment to arrive because it's the first second that she could arrive in history without changing the identity of Chakotay and Seven's baby.

Seven was knocked up in the finale?

Wouldn't her body automatically assimilate any embro trying to make a home inside Seven?

It's likely Seven couldn't even have children. Does she even have ovaries? And if she does, would they even work? She was assimilated at 6, and it seems great portions of her interior were mechanical. In Timeless we see inside her skull and half her brain is mechanical. And in Tsunkatse, she had exposed wires coming out of her arm. Who knows though, maybe ovaries can be replicated in the 24th Century.

 

[Guy Gardener]

McCoy could grow a kidney with a pill.

What ever the Borg shoveled out of her to make room for technology, if she wanted new ovaries and a new uterus, she just had to ask for them.

What we did see in the final episode was Seven asking for brain surgery, so that she could have a full orgasm without dying.

Brain surgery seems a lot harder than taking a uterus pill and an ovary pill.

 

[Prax]

McCoy could grow a kidney with a pill.

What ever the Borg shoveled out of her to make room for technology, if she wanted new ovaries and a new uterus, she just had to ask for them.

What we did see in the final episode was Seven asking for brain surgery, so that she could have a full orgasm without dying.

Brain surgery seems a lot harder than taking a uterus pill and an ovary pill.

Brain Surgery? Pfff... Anyone can do that! All they need do is put on "The Teacher."

Unfortunately, the skill only lasts for 3 hours.

 

[Guy Gardener]

So as an end around Seven could have just used the teacher to have a three hour orgasm, without that pesky cortical node murdering her, as well as cutting out the middle man?

 

[Voth commando1]

It was artificial and insultingly insincere.

I still think Harry/7 would have been better.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Putting her in between B'Lanna and Tom would have been way more interesting.

1. 7 and Tom because pregnant B'Elanna is ignoring him.

2. 7 and B'Elanna because Tom is pissing off pregnant B'Elanna.

3. 7 and B'Elanna and Tom, together Happy.

4. 7 is with B'Elanna, and 7 is with Tom, but Tom doesn't know that 7 is with B'Elanna and B'Elanna don't know that 7 is with Tom.

5. Tom and B'Elanna break up, Seven then dates them sequentially.

 

[Voth commando1]

I agree with the lack of chemistry but we did see some things leading up to the relarionship. Seven was already developing feelings for him from her holodeck program. And we only saw them after one date.

I didn't like that scene, it was more cringey than the relationship itself.

 

[Timewalker]

I understand that a lot of people did not like this pairing, and I think the main reason is that many people were hoping for a Janeway/Chakotay relationship. But honestly, the more I think about it the more I think C/7 wasn't completely horrible.

Janeway made it very clear that she would not be in a relationship with anyone under her command, we even saw this in Workforce at the end. So having been rejected Chakotay did the healthy thing and moved on from her to another relationship. In this regard it makes sense for it to be Seven because asside from Janeway and B'Elanna, she was the only other woman he spent time with.

Yes the relationship somewhat came out of nowhere, but they spent a lot of time together shortly before that on that planet so perhaps some feelings began to develop there. Also in Endgame we saw them after their first (or was it second) date, so it's not like they were serious.

Another main issue is chemistry between the actors, which in my opnion there was zero. But I blame that mostly on Robert Beltran. It was a poor match in terms of the actors, but not the characters.

Any other thoughts?

Fanfic to the rescue. I found a group of writers on fanfiction.net who routinely write novel-length stories about C/7, and a couple of them are especially good.

One of them decided that in the episode where the Hirogen turned the ship into a series of war zones, Chakotay's alter ego and Seven's alter ego (in the WWII scenario) had sex, and after the events of that episode were resolved, it turns out that Seven is pregnant. She can't recall the encounter with Chakotay since neither were aware of their true identities at the time, but they eventually figure it out. Fast-forward a few chapters, and they end up married, with a kid.

There are other ways these authors have used to get these two characters together, and most of them work.

But one of the more original alternatives to C/7 is a story in which Seven and Samantha Wildman get married. It's quite entertaining to see how Sam helps Seven recover her human emotions and develop as an individual, and of course Naomi is happy because she's got two moms.